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I mean if you’re going to write algos that trade the first thing you should do is check whether they were successful on historical data. This is an interesting data point.

Market impact shouldn’t be considered when you’re talking about trading S&P stocks with $100k.


Historical data is useful for validation, don't develop algos against it, test hypotheses until you've biased your data, then move on to something productive for society


is there evidence it’s for vendor lock in purposes? airpods have a pretty stellar connection for bluetooth, wouldn’t be surprised if there were performance reasons for them going off spec


I doubt it’s for any reason at all. The obvious explanation is that they just developed and tested these extra firmware features against Apple devices because that was the product decision. Since nobody was tasked with targeting Android they might not have even noticed that it wasn’t perfectly spec-compliant if those states were never encountered, nor expected to be encountered.


No there isn’t. I’ve said this a million times before, but usually just downvoted: this is about reducing support costs, not increasing revenue from lock-in. This is not a theory, I’ve sat in meetings at Cupertino and been told first hand.

Support is very expensive. Say what you want about Apple, but they provide absolutely stellar support, especially with the stupidly inexpensive Apple Care insurance. This is only cost effective if they can make reasonable predictions about how their devices will behave in any given scenario. Interfacing Apple hardware with non-certified (MFi, BLE, etc) third party hardware has a non-trivial risk of unpredictability high support costs, either from excessive Apple Care claims, customer support communications, or just overloading the Genius Bar.

Reducing support cost could easily explain the motivation of the entire walled garden if they are sufficiently high.


That's tautological. Everything that is not supported is so because supporting it has a cost. The question is what is the cost? It seems quite obvious that the marginal revenue from airpods would be overshadowed by the revenue of getting a user in the ecosystem.


Having to test the AirPods with more standards compliant devices, having to waste time to tell customers to fuck off if their phone/laptop/toaster is not standards compliant, having to waste engineering time to investigate non compliant aliexpress phones/laptops/toasters, wasting time to implement additional functionality for Apple customers because it has to go into the spec first


Yes, all that is a part of the cost equation, which points to the same thing, namely, that $200-$300 widgets are not worth selling to the general public; they would rather sell them to a customer who will spend a lot more in the ecosystem. Same as razors and blades or consoles and games.


Customer support costs are higher at Apple than its competitors, because they provide a better support experience. This is not a tautology, it’s one of their core value propositions


They couldn't just write (and make people aware at point of sale, ofc) 'no support for using devices with non-Apple Computers products' into Apple Care. They had to purposely break compatibility?


if (name == 'APPLE') will surely improve performance.


Specifications are there for a reason... Why use Bluetooth at all if they don't actually use it properly?


You can still connect AirPods to an android device using Bluetooth, you just don’t get the seamless connection or support for Spatial Audio that use the extended protocols


You can't even change noise cancel's mode.


It's just on and off, and doesn't let you choose between the different ones (transparency, conversation aware, etc)


> Why use Bluetooth at all if they don't actually use it properly?

Because they needed a way to get audio to the AirPods wirelessly and to work with their devices? That’s a pretty good reason to use Bluetooth.

I doubt they got together and tried to scheme a way to break Bluetooth in this one tiny little way for vendor lock in. You can use the basic AirPod features with other Bluetooth devices. It’s just these extended features that were never developed for other platforms.

HN comments lean heavily conspiratorial but I think the obvious explanation is that the devs built and tested it against iPhone and Mac targets and optimized for that. This minor discrepancy wasn’t worked around because it isn’t triggered on Apple platforms and it’s not a target for them.


It reminds me of the USB keyboard extender that came with old Macs. There’s a little notch in the socket so you can only use it with Apple keyboards. At the time I thought it was a petty way of preventing you from using it with any other device, but apparently the reason they didn’t want you to use it with other devices is because the cable didn’t comply with the USB spec.

Some pictures here: https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/b1u08k/this_...


Yes, USB extenders are not spec-legal (because the device isn't built expecting to be extended).

But you can have an extension cord which accepts USB on one end but doesn't accept USB on the other.

So the keyboard has a superset connector so that it can go in regular USB and notched USB, because it is verified to work right when using the extension cord.

This design also means you can't plug one extension cord into another to get an even longer distance (which the keyboard wouldn't expect). Pretty clever solution.


Did you even bother about reading the comments on your own citation?


Yes, I did actually. I genuinely don’t know what you’re referring to?


>doubt they got together and tried to scheme a way to break Bluetooth in this one tiny little way for vendor lock in.

No conspiracy needed, surely it would be unilateral? It seems exactly the sort of thing Apple Computers would do to protect their ecosystem.


Perhaps Apple correctly implemented the specification here


This is Microsoft's playbook from many years ago: embrace, extend, extinguish.


Apple is a promoter member of the Bluetooth standard organization for a while now, so it could submit that as an enhancement.


Assuming they even went off spec at all.


Performance reasons LOL. Apple fans love plausible deniability.


And haters love a conspiracy.

Truth is, no one has the full facts so any reasons as to why this was made the way it was is pure speculation. Only a fool would move to condemn or endorse what is not yet fully understood.


As someone who's implemented custom Bluetooth protocols, it's actually quite easy to condemn an Apple manufacturer ID check to expose custom services.

And what do you mean by "conspiracy"? I would be shocked to find out this was done by some lone wolf and wasn't built with broad (even if grumbly) consensus in the relevant teams. That's how corporate software is built.


Every time someone opens an argument with the classic appeal to authority “as someone who has…” you can almost certainly expect to have that person miss the point of the discussion entirely.


What a fantastic way to keep from addressing anything I said while still allowing you to act condescendingly.


maybe instead of communicating how dumb you think people are for choosing mongo, communicate why you think it’s so dumb


I've read a lot more about "how dumb it is to use mongo over PG" than the opposite, I think the burden of proof is on the mongo-lovers these days (not that anyone has to prove anything to randos on the internet)


Why mongo is dumb has been written up about ad nauseam - from data modeling and quality issues, out of control costs, etc. It's been a known toxic dumpsterfire for well over a decade...


we’re not far from the point where ChatGPT is superior than going to the doctor in terms of cost, accessibility, speed, and quality

it’s honestly not as bad as y’all think

ChatGPT isn’t perfect but neither is your doctor (or your lawyer or accountant)


It’s not as bad as you think until OpenAI begins selling it’s data profile they’ve been collecting on you.


ehh this reads a bit like the hn comments complaining about sites that don’t work with js disabled

like what percent of firefox users do you think actually care about this?


Given the abysmal market share of Firefox today I think a large percentage of the remaining users do actually care.


No one care about this story at large. It's a pretty bad argument to make among the population that does care. Every HN user can leave Firefox and it'd still be running.

Fortunately, history has shown you don't need a majority of users decrying something to get noticed.


enough to move to zen after 20+ years


I'm sure it's a very small amount, but as well as making me personally happy*, (I feel) it would play into their image as the good guy.

"Do you want the most minimal stripped down version of FireFox? Well you can have it!"

*and after all, isn't that what's really important /s


how did you submit this table in HN??


Use two or more spaces at the beginning of a line and it will be formatted as code ("<code>") and then use symbols as you like.

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https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc


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(for posterity)


If the hypothesis is that we still need knowledgeable people to run LLMs, but the way you become knowledgeable is by talking to LLMs, then I don’t think the hypothesis will be correct for long..


We need knowledgeable people to run computers, but you can become knowledgeable about computers by using computers to access learning material. Seems like that generalizes well to LLMs.


You inserted a hidden "only" there to make it into a logical sounding dismissive quip.

You don't get knowledge by ONLY talking to LLMs, but they're a great tool.


I predict that in 6-12 months we'll all be back on VS Code. I would hate to have Microsoft as a direct competitor, especially in a space they care so much about (developers + AI).


This thesis has existed since Cursor first started, and the gap between them and VSCode has only widened since then. It’s worth spending some time thinking about why that may be before having such strong conviction about their demise.


> the gap between them and VSCode has only widened since then

What is in this gap? Do you know of any good resources that outline the features that Cursor provides over VSCode with Copilot?


You can't really name a list of features that cursor has that copilot doesn't. It's more like: Cursor appears to heavily dogfood their features, VSCode's copilot seems to check the feature boxes, but each one sucks to use. The autocomplete popups are jarring. The copilot agent doesn't seem to gather the correct context. They still haven't figured out tool calling. It's really something you have to try rather than look at a checklist of features.


I think your knowledge is a bit outdated? Cursor definetley still has an edge, but VSCode Github Copilot UI has come a long way and using the same underlying models for both the results are fairly similar and change only in ux niceties

stuff like background agents cursor is way ahead.

Zed Editor is a nice contender too


I tried copilot agent like 3 weeks ago. If that much has changed since then, props to Microsoft.

Zed is very nice, it’s just a totally different workflow. I think people who work in a domain where AI is not particularly strong would be better off with Zed, since Cursor’s way of reviewing edits is a little clumsy.


yeah tbh copilot is really not -that great- compared to both cursor or zed.

But i tihnk that's UX polish they can fix it if they cared

we'll see i guess maybe MS prefers to just buy them out?

Cursor getting out of price tho


What about on the speed front? VS Code's biggest problem is with how slow it is. I'd already be done and on to the next (and maybe the next thing after that) by the time it finally gets around to things. I like the concept, but I only have so much time in a day.


If you find VS Code to be slow, you might give Zed a try. I have been using Zed with my Claude API key and it's really something.


You can literally download and try it for free. Cursor is just better, its insane that Microsoft screwed up AGAIN!


have you tried using either of them?


You mean the gap in vscode compatibility?


Yeah idk what "gap" every cursor user talks about. I installed cursor, it didn't work on wsl closed that chapter asap. Went to windsurf, enjoyed it but it's credit usage scheme was very confusing, nearly pressed the buy button until I went back to try copilot.

Copilot is good enough, even the free tier gets whatever annoying tasks I don't want to do done. Anything more complex I already have a Gemini and ChatGPT subscription so I just do the old copy paste.


What are your thoughts on why it might be?


* a small, focused team moves faster

* cursor has great taste and that's hard to replicate at MS scale

* Microsoft had allegiance to OpenAI early on which reduced their experimentation with other models


Their main supplier (Anthropic) is also a direct competitor (Claude Code). I love Cursor but boy, what a tough place to be in. It's hard to see how it works out for them in the end.


Cursor+Gemini MAX is pretty good these days. It seems like Claude Code and C+GM leapfrog each other every month or two.

Cursor has a lot of potential leverage owning the developer and the training data streams and commoditizing the underlying model.


Code isn't as strictly competitive as the IDE's are. Code even has solid VS Code integration. It's effectively a plugin, just one that isn't tied to any one IDE.


Agreed. There's no way Cursor can stay ahead when they really don't have much of a moat.

Don't get me wrong, I love Cursor but is seems Microsoft could just rip it all off and put it in base VS Code.


Which they have basically done and are closing in on them fast


You and I have not tried the same vscode


The new memory feature on Cursor is going to keep me locked in for the foreseeable future. It's _really_ good.


Have you used copilot recently? It is absolutely useless these days.


I wish HN allowed threads like this to hit the front page...

The world is changing pretty quickly, and stuff like this does have implications on war, business, technology that's I think is worth discussing here.


Threads like this do make the front page sometimes, you can mail hn@ycombinator.com and make the case for user flags to be turned off for the post.


It's pretty rare. It was flagged dead when I came across it. My comment got over a dozen upvotes so it seems others feel similarly.


Look like it worked.


[flagged]


Ok, you know how Superman gets his powers from the energy of the Earth's yellow sun? Same, except I use being a busybody instead of the sun.


That and your snazzy HN club jacket :D


It doesn't help that the tech industry is slowly collapsing while all of the tech leaders are jumping into politics.

Sometimes I wonder what is actually left of hacker/startup culture?


How can you have hacker culture at any major tech companies when the entire management structure is nothing but business brains?

How many CEOs of prominent tech companies right now even use technology? Like REALLY use it.


Hacker culture is still around, not so sure about startups though.

We still have TCP. We still have Linux. We still have gcc, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo and more. Now, that last mile connection is still looking dicey; if a lockdown is applied, it will be applied there.


This is a bit flippant, but maybe hacker/startup culture just moved from being applied to tech to being applied to politics? It seems like the technofeudalism promoted by some could apply a similar ethos.


Hacker culture and startup culture are two entirely different things, with entirely different worldviews. The overlap in the Venn diagram isn't as large as many think.


Aannd… it’s flagged. Yeah I agree, the discussion here has been pretty clean and reasonable so I don’t understand why this gets shot down. I do understand that politics doesn’t really belong here but changes like this absolutely have follow on effects on business and technology and deserve room for discussion.


Yes, please show me more political drama, especially of the US-based comedy show you guys call "politics." Can't get enough of it. Only 60% of my HN feed has "Trump", "DOGE" or "Musk" in the title, that's not nearly enough for my taste, I'm gagging to see more of it. There must be some conspiracy going on, I'm sure of it.


> I’d argue that the most valuable companies of the AI era don’t exist yet. They’ll be the startups that harness AI’s potential to solve specific, costly problems across our economy—from engineering and finance to healthcare, logistics, legal, marketing, sales, and more.

I feel like the author's concluding point contradicts himself. There is a gold rush and OpenAI is selling shovels.


I’d say Nvidia is selling shovel factories (training hardware), OpenAI is renting shovels (trained models as a service), and DeepSeek gave everyone a shovel for free.

But Nvidia is also selling steroids (inference hardware) that everyone will need to use their new free shovels.

This analogy may have gotten out of hand.


I thought Nvidia is selling shovels


Nvidia is selling shovels. OpenAI is renting out mining crews


Mickey Mouse animated the shovels with the big spell book, and now they're marching around and need shovels of their own...


This has me imagining it in terms of the game Cuphead. That’s also good for visualizing this I think.


It's that OpenAI is investing tens of billions of dollars in shovels and others, like deepseek, are open sourcing equivalently good shovels.

The vertical specific companies, though, are harder to clone as the invest in the product offering around/on top of AI


> OpenAI is selling shovels.

I think the author argues that OpenAI is not the only one selling shovels, and their shovels won't be always better that others'.


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