Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | herendin's commentslogin

I wish we could all be mature enough that such pointless symbolic gestures were not necessary. This causes no hardship for Tim and makes no non-negligible impact on Apple's financials or employee wellbeing


Isn’t it fun to move goalposts! On layoff threads, people comment that the CEOs “taking full responsibility” should cut exec pay. Now we have a company that hasn’t had any layoffs and the CEO is taking a paycut and it’s a pointless symbolic gesture.


The goalpost comment really isn't necessary; there are a lot of people on this site, and it's inevitable that conflicting opinions will get expressed. I think there's an interesting point to be made about how widely differing expectations can make it difficult for public figures to avoid criticism from one group or another, but it's muddled by the dubious assumption that people commenting on articles are some monolithic unit rather than a varying set of individuals from one article to the next, each of whom have potentially unique perspectives and aren't necessarily the same people who commented on a different thread.


I moved my goalposts?


if it's different people making the comments, then they don't need to be consistent.

and if the same, then if their outlook has class struggle leanings, they're being entirely consistent, capitalist class bad.


This isn't a PR exercise. Context is needed as below:

1. Shareholders have a "say-on-pay" vote, this is non-binding, but gives the board an idea of shareholder attitudes.

2. Institutional Shareholder Services raised concerns with their clients about Tim Cook's pay and requested that they vote against Tim's proposed package.

3. The approval vote dropped to 64% (usually around 95%).

4. Members of the compensation team engaged shareholders for an idea about where to set compensation. Tim then requested that.


>This isn't a PR exercise. Context is needed

Thank you for explaining the context so well. But I disagree with your first claim. I'm saying it is totally a PR exercise.


PR isn't an opinion.


I’m curious what your reaction would be if he got a 40% pay increase.

Frankly it’s refreshing to see a CEO cut his own pay vs continuously increasing it regardless of how well the company performs.


What does "refreshing" even mean?

What would be refreshing is an adequate social safety net. Not mega rich getting slightly less megarich.


I don’t think those two are remotely related to each other. You could drain the wealth of the top 1000 people to zero and still not support a social safety net in perpetuity.

To put some numbers behind it, the 735 billionaires in the world are worth $4.7 trillion total. Spread evenly across only 300 million people that’s only $15.6k each. Then that money is all gone.


You've created a strawman here.

First, a safety net wouldn't apply to 300 million people, only a small percentage of that who need it when it's necessary. Second, I'm not suggesting it is solely funded by taxing the megarich.

Other nations already offer healthcare. This isn't mathematically infeasible, it's been done elsewhere, and done for years.


>I’m curious what your reaction would be if he got a 40% pay increase.

It would be equally performative. This is morality theater. I'd only question his judgment about public relations.

I do understand the reasoning for this adjustment of his salary. I'm simply saying I wish it was not necessary. It's sad.


Apparently you think Tim Cook already has an infinite amount of money.

In that case, many leading CEOs are just taking symbolic salaries to do their jobs. I wonder why they even bother.


Clearly you don't understand..

It affects the morale of your employees, knowing even your execs bear the price of struggle helps with mental health

It's documented and Nintendo applied it countless times during its history, look at the result today

https://www.polygon.com/2013/7/5/4496512/why-nintendos-sator...

I laugh at these companies laying off random people instead of cleaning up execs/managers, they treat their workforce like livestock, no wonder they are showing poor results lately


Consider the growing list of CEO who have "taken full responsibility" for layoffs without taking on any of the downside. Even on a symbolic level this is the right thing to do, but practically speaking it signals some sense of skin in the game which is sadly lacking from CEO's who let go of staff without acknowledging that it was a failure of their management in any material terms.


CEOs are too rich to ever have skin in the game. It's a meaningless exercise.

Tim Cook will never feel the pain of a layoff like someone at the genius bar.


It's insulting to say that someone giving up a potential income amount that I will never achieve cumulatively in my entire lifetime is symbolic and pointless.


symbolic gestures constitute a large part of the fabric of society. Saying "thank you" to someone doesn't provide any value, yet you do it, and people appreciate it.


>symbolic gestures constitute a large part of the fabric of society.

In fact, we all know that saying Thank you may provide real value to both sides, because we mean it

But meaningless gestures, such as a billionaire at a wealthy and healthy company taking a paycut, harm and devalue our social fabric


I find it encouraging that our institutions are able to begin to course correct, that's reknitting the frayed social fabric from my perspective.


This just demonstrates that shareholders do have a say, which presumably is how it should be.


By that logic he should have just kept is salary what it was. His salary now is about .05% of the companies revenue. That would be like the CEO of Mailchimp making 350k


Helium's so scarce. You're attempting to reduce ultra high vacuum to even less. Not practical


Remove your focus from making money. Direct yourself at getting better at skills in a generalized way. Indirectly I've learned a lot from my supplementary projects, which supplements my core skillset. My result serendipitously is profit although that's not my target


There's a HN auto filter that removes unnecessary words from titles

That could be the cause


Expressions like "huge deal", should perhaps be left alone. Either that, or replace both with "significant" or "important". But that too seems silly.


Perhaps? It completely changes the original meaning.


This are the weird and visible cases of HN's title rewriting algorithm going wrong.

I guess the cases where it does the right thing are not noticeable, and that's why I only see the bad cases. Are there examples where HN title rewriting did something good, or cases where before HN did this titles were very bad or clickbaity?


Thanks! (Including the descendant commenters.)

Wondering about that is why I bothered to comment at all. I assumed there must be some logical-but-not-quite-working reason. :-D


I certainly don't mean to nitpick[0], but this one is a total dumpster fire because it is lacking a clear 'HN is turning into Reddit!' comment[1]

[0]https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ackchyually-actually-guy

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


That video looks extremely manufactured. There are so many edits and so many different camera angles.

Maybe it can happen, but is it possible that this video is mostly faked?



You say you can't understand, but the chart you yourself posted (to illustrate price volatilility) also shows a 12,000% increase in price in less than 8 years, up to today.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results, but maybe that, the improbable 12000%, is the thinking that you're trying to understand?


That's my point - given the extreme volatility (and the fact that it was trading below $1K less than 6 years ago) why would anyone think there's some floor below which the price of BTC will never fall? Please don't bring up mining costs, which are completely irrelevant here.


You're making a stronger counter argument than you think. BTC only gets a 12,000% increase because you recruit a bigger fool to pay $16,059 than the fool who paid $16,058. The only value that you've offered here is that you can eventually find a fool big enough to pay $1,925,760.


And how big is the fool who sold at $100?


Less foolish than the person bought at $69,044.77.


Only if that person who bought at $69,044.77 was a fool to sell.


>There is honestly no price I could buy it at where I would be willing to hold.

Really no price? Even given the opportunity to buy at $10, you still wouldn't hold?


If you believe its value is going down you wouldn't want to hold at any purchase price.


Are you confident it won’t go to $5? I’m not.


I would be very confident I could sell before it hits $5.


What if you're asleep when it falls?


Uhhh you set a stop loss number.

If it hits x sell. So if I was given a coin currently "worth" $15,000 for $5. I could set a stop loss of $6 and always make a profit since my initial investment was $5. Asleep, awake, doesn't matter.


Stop losses can fail when prices are falling quickly enough.


Set multiple stop losses? $6, $5.99, $5.75, etc, etc. if one fails one of the others will catch it. Hell as long as it sells before $5.01 I'm profitable. Simple as.


That’s not how stop losses work. If things are falling fast enough, You could have one trade at $7, and the next trade at $4. Sorry, you still lost money.


That's how people who haven't previously been investors through a crisis think stop losses work.


What difference would that make? You can invest $50k at $10k a piece or $10 a piece. In both cases it can easily go to $5k or $5.


>The nice thing is, that the more it continues, the bigger the fall will be.

Why is that "nice"?


It's nicer than the alternative (to explode even later)


>The nice thing is, that the more it continues, the bigger the fall will be.

>It's nicer than the alternative (to explode even later)

These two outcomes are mutually exclusive. You're speaking nonsense.


Both outcomes are nicer than the alternative (all crypto-bros become billionaire and everyone else staying poor and being enslaved)


>it’s overloaded with mid to low value commentsi

Because these types of comments take little effort to post, and to read

People who could post an interesting technical comment about zero knowledge proofs or monetary theory will be discouraged, if the responses are low effort rants like "Crypto is a scam" or "Bitcoin will destroy fiat"

So intelligent and informed people don't bother to join these discussions on HN any more


And now your question has been flag killed.

Take that as a sign that the majority of this community do not want any more open discussion about this issue, and the site's administrators accept this consensus


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: