Are they buying them to try and slow down open source models and protect the massive amounts of money they make from OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta ect?
It quite obvious that open source models are catching up to closed source models very fast they about 3-4 months behind right now, and yeah they are trained on Nvidia chips, but as the open source models become more usable, and closer to closed source models they will eat into Nvidia profit as these companies aren't spending tens of billion dollars on chips to train and run inference. These are smaller models trained on fewer GPUs and they are performing as good as the pervious OpenAI and Anthropic models.
So obviously open source models are a direct threat to Nvidia, and they only thing open source models struggle at is scaling inference and this is where Groq and Cerberus come into the picture as they provide the fastest inference for open source models that make them even more usable than SOTA models.
Shy of an algo breakthrough, open source isn't going to catch up with SOTA, their main trick for model improvement is distilling the SOTA models. That's why they they have perpetually been "right behind".
They don't need to catch up. They just need to be good enough and fast as fuck. Vast majority of useful tasks of LLMs has nothing to do with how smart they are.
GPT-5 models have been the most useless models out of any model released this year despite being SOTA, and it because it slow as fuck.
For coding I don’t use any of the previous gen models anymore.
Ideally I would have both fast and SOTA; if I would have to pick one I’d go with SOTA.
There a report by OpenRouter on what folks tend to pay for it; it generally is SOTA in the coding domain. Folks are still paying a premium for them today.
There is a question if there is a bar where coding models are “good enough”; for myself I always want smarter / SOTA.
FWIW coding is one of the largest usages for LLM's where SOTA quality matters.
I think the bar for when coding models are "good enough" will be a tradeoff between performance and price. I could be using Cerebras Code and saving $50 a month, but Opus 4.5 is fast enough and I value the piece-of-mind I have knowing it's quality is higher than Cerebras' open source models to spend the extra money. It might take a while for this gap to close, and what is considered "good enough" will be different for every developer, but certainly this gap cannot exist forever.
I just use a mix of Cerebras Code for lots of fast/simpler edits and refactoring and Codex or Claude Code for more complex debugging or planning and implementing new features, works pretty well. Then again, I move around so many tokens that doing everything with just one provider would need either their top of the line subscriptions or paying a lot per-token some months. And then there's the thing that a single model (even SOTA) can never solve all problems, sometimes I also need to pull out Gemini (3 is especially good) or others.
Hard disagree. There are very few scenarios where I'd pick speed (quantity) over intelligence (quality) for anything remotely to do with building systems.
If you thought a human working on something will benefit from being "agile" (building fast, shipping quickly, iterating, getting feedback, improving), why should it be any different from AI models?
Implicit in your claim are specific assumptions about how expensive/untenable it is to build systemic guardrails and human feedback, and specific cost/benefit ratio of approximate goal attainment instead of perfect goal attainment. Rest assured that there is a whole portfolio of situations where different design points make most sense.
1. law of diminishing returns - AI is already much, much faster at many tasks than humans, especially at spitting out text, so becoming even faster doesn’t always make that much of a difference.
2. theory of constraints - throughput of a system is mostly limited by the „weakest link“ or slowest part, which might not be the LLM, but some human-in-the-loop, which might be reduced only by smarter AI, not by faster AI.
3. Intelligence is an emergent property of a system, not a property of its parts - with other words: intelligent behaviour is created through interactions. More powerful LLMs enable new levels of interaction that are just not available with less capable models. You don’t want to bring a knife, not even the quickest one in town, to a massive war of nukes.
I agree with you for many use cases, but for the use case I'm focused on (Voice AI) speed is absolutely everything. Every millisecond counts for voice, and most voice use cases don't require anything close to "deep thinking. E.g., for inbound customer support use cases, we really just want the voice agent to be fast and follow the SOP.
If you have a SOP, most of the decision logic can be encoded and strictly enforced. There is zero intelligence involved in this process, it’s just if/else. The key part is understanding the customer request and mapping it to the cases encoded in the SOP - and for that part, intelligence is absolutely required or your customers will not feel „supported“ at all, but be better off with a simple form.
What do you mean by "such a system"? One that uses AI to funnel your natural language request into their system of SOP? Or one that uses SOPs to handle cases in general? SOP are great, they drastically reduce errors, since the total error is the square root of the sum of squares of random error and bias – while bias still occurs, the random error can and should be reduced by SOPs, whenever possible. The problem is that SOPs can be really bad: "Wait, I will speak to my manager" -> probably bad SOP. "Wait, I will get my manager so that you can speak to them" -> might be a better SOP, depending on the circumstances.
It never works. You always just get the digital equivalent of a runaround and there simply isn't a human in the loop to take over when the AI botches it (again). So I gave up trying, this crap should not be deployed unless it works at least as good as a person. You can't force people to put up with junk implementations of otherwise good ideas in the hope that one day you'll get it right, customer service should be a service because on the other end of the line is someone with a very high probability of being already dissatisfied with your company and/or your product. For me this is not negotiable, if my time is less valuable to you, the company, than it is to actually put someone on to help then my money will go somewhere else.
> They don't need to catch up. They just need to be good enough
The current SOTA models are impressive but still far from what I’d consider good enough to not be a constant exercise in frustration. When the SOTA models still have a long way to go, the open weights models have an even further gap distance to catch up.
I'd prefer a 30 minute response from GPT-5 over a 10 minute Response from {Claude/Google} <whatever their SOTA model is> (yes, even gemini 3)
Reason is: while these models look promising in benchmarks and seem very capable at an affordable price, I *strongly* felt that OpenAI models perform better most of the times. I had to cleanup Gemini mess or Claude mess after vibe coding too much. OpenAI models are just much more reliable with large scale tasks, organizing, chomping tasks one by one etc. That takes its time but the results are 100% worth it.
Too bad, so sad for the Mister Krabs secret recipe-pilled labs. Shy of something fundamental changing, it will always be possible to make a distillation that is 98% as good as a frontier model for ~1% of the cost of training the SOTA model. Some technology just wants to be free :)
I am by no means an expert, but I think it is a process that allows training LLMs from other LLMs without needing as much compute or nearly as much data as training from scratch. I think this was the thing deepseek pioneered. Don’t quote me on any of that though.
No, distillation is far older than deepseek. Deepseek was impressive because of algorithmic improvements that allowed them to train a model of that size with vastly less compute than anyone expected, even using distillation.
I also haven’t seen any hard data on how much they do use distillation like techniques. They for sure used a bunch of synthetic generated data to get better at reasoning, something that is now commonplace.
>Are they buying them to try and slow down open source models
The opposite, I think.
Why do you think that local models are a direct threat to Nvidia?
Why would Nvidia let a few of their large customers have more leverage by not diversifying to consumers? Openai decided to eat into Nvidia's manufacturing supply by buying DRAM; that's concretely threatening behavior from one of Nvidia's larger customers.
If Groq sells technology that allows for local models to be used better, why would that /not/ be a profit source for Nvidia to incorporate? Nvidia owes a lot of their success on the consumer market. This is a pattern in the history of computer tech development. Intel forgot this. AMD knows this. See where everyone is now.
Besides, there are going to be more Groqs in the future. Is it worth spending ~20B for each of them to continue to choke-hold the consumer market? Nvidia can afford to look further.
It'd be a lot harder to assume good faith if Openai ended up buying Groq. Maybe Nvidia knows this.
Then why are they spending $20 billion dollars to handicap an inference company that giving open source models a major advantage over closed source models?
Realistically groq is a great solution but has near impossible requirements for deployment. Just look at how many adapters you need to meet the memory requirements of a small llm. SRAM is fast but small.
I would guess their interconnect technology is what NVIDIA wants. You need something like 75 adapters for an 8b parameter model they had some really interesting tech to make the accelerator to accelerator communication work and scale. They were able to do that well before nvl 72 and they scale to hundreds of adapters since large models require more adapters still.
That's a non-charitable interpretation of what happened. The are not "spending $20 billion to handicap Groq". They are handing Groq $20 billion to do whatever they want with it. Groq can take this money and build more chips, do more R&D, hire more people. $20 billion is truly a lot of money. It's quite hard to "handicap" someone by giving them $20 billion.
> Groq added that it will continue as an “independent company,” led by finance chief Simon Edwards as CEO.
The $20B does not go to Groq's investors. It goes to Groq. You can say that Groq is owned by its investors, and this is the same thing, but it's not. In order for the money to go to the investors, Groq needs to disburse a dividend, or to buy back shares. There is no indication that this will happen. And what's more, the investors don't even need this to happen. I'm sure any investor that wants to sell their shares in Groq will now find plenty of buyers at a very advantageous price.
Yes, you are way off, because Groq doesn't make open source models. Groq makes innovative AI accelerator chips that are significantly faster than Nvidia's.
For inference, but yes. Many hundreds of tokens per second of output is the norm, in my experience. I don't recall the prompt processing figures but I think it was somewhere in the low hundreds of tokens per second (so slightly slower than inference).
> Groq makes innovative AI accelerator chips that are significantly faster than Nvidia's.
Yeah I'm disappointed by this, this is clearly to move them out of the market. Still, that leaves a vacuum for someone else to fill. I was extremely impressed by Groq last I messed about with it, the inference speed was bonkers.
You still need hardware to run open source models. It might eat into OpenAI profit but I doubt it will eat into NVIDIA's
If anything more companies in making models business the higher NVIDIA chip demand will be, till we get some proper competition at least. We badly need some open CUDA equivalent so moving off to competition isn't a problem
Nvidia's dream would be for everyone to buy a personal DGX H100 for private local inference. That's where open source could lead. Datacenters are much more efficient in their use of chips.
Nvidia just released their Nemotron models, and in my testing, they are the best performing models on low-end consumer hardware in both terms of speed and accuracy.
I'd say that it's probably not a play against open source, but more trying to remove/change the bottlenecks in the current chip production cycle. Nvidia likely doesn't care who wins, they just want to sell their chips. They literally can't make enough to meet current demand. If they split off the inference business (and now own one of the only purchasable alternatives) they can spin up more production.
That said, it's completely anti-competitive. Nvidia could design a inference chip themselves, but instead the are locking down one of the only real independents. But... Nobody was saying Groq was making any real money. This might just be a rescue mission.
They need to vertically integrate the entire stack or they die. All of the big players are already making plans for their own chips/hardware. They see everyone else competing for the exact same vendor’s chips and need to diversify.
With RAM/memory price this high, open source is not going to catch up with closed source.
The open source economy relies on the wisdom of crowds. But that implies and equal access to experimentation platforms. The democratization of PC and consumer hardware brings the previous open source era that we all love, I am afraid the tech mongols had identified the chokehold of LLM ecosystem and found ways to successfully monopolized it
NVIDIA makes money no matter if the model is open weights or not. I don't think open is a concern for them and they'd very much like to be servicing China and their batch of open models I think. what's concerning them more likely is
A. The inevitable breakdown of their massive head start with CUDA and data center hardware. A serious competitor at real scale.
B. Anything that'll cool off the massive data center buildouts that are fueling them.
Seems clear that locking up a major potential competitor especially the minds behind it solves for A. And their ongoing machinations with circular funding of companies funding data centers is all about B - keeping the momentum before it fizzles.
More like they’re trying to snuff out potential competitors. Why work as hard to push your own products if NVIDIA gave you money to retire for the rest of your life?
The constant threat of open source (and other competitors) is what keeps the big fish from getting complacent. It’s why they’re spending trillions on new data centers, and that benefits Nvidia. When there’s an arms-race on it’s good to be an arms dealer.
Idk- cheaper inference seems to be a huge industry secret and providing the best inference tech that only works with nvidia seems like a good plan. Makes nvidia the absolute king of compute against AWS/AMD/Intel seems like a no brainer.
Your way off, this reads more like anti capitalist political rhetoric than real reasoning.
Look at Nvidia nemotron series. They hav become a leading open source training lab themselves and they’re releasing the best training data, training tooling, and models at this point.
Did you even read? "but I'm more worried about this happening to those running services that I rely on" The problem is some AI god agentic weaving high techbro sitting at Cloudflare/Google/Amazon not us reasonable joes on our small projects.
You think Cloduflare, Google, and Amazon are allowing engineers to plug Claude Code into production services? You think these companies are skipping code reviews and just saying fuck it let it do whatever it wants? Of course they aren't.
Yeah I think it will probably go down as the biggest mistake Tesla has made.
They could have spent all the effort building EV delivery trucks with built in self driving which would help them collect even more data for FSD to tell them rollout robotaxis.
Even if camera-only does work*, it's still a mistake, because it was a bet that LiDAR wouldn't get cheap.
* I think it will, eventually, but "eventually" can be a long time, and the point is that this no longer even matters because of how cheap LiDAR is now.
The thing about OpenAI is their models never fit anywhere for me. Yes they maybe smart or even the smartest models but they are alway so fucking slow. The ChatGPT web app is literally usable for me. I ask simple task and it does most extreme shit jsut to get an answer that the same as Claude or Gemini.
For example, I asked ChatGPT to take a chart and convert into a table. It went and cut up the image and zoomed in for literally 5 mins to get the a worst answer than Claude which did it in under a minute.
I see people talk about Codex like it better than Claude Code, and I go and try it and it takes a lifetime to do thing and it return maybe an on par result as Opus or Sonnet but it takes 5mins longer.
I just tried out this model and it the same exact thing. It just take ages for it to give you an answer.
I don't get how these models are useful in the real world.
Are you using 5.1 Thinking? I tended to prefer Claude before this model.
I use models based on the task. They still seem specialized and better at specific tasks. If I have a question I tend to go to it. If I need code, I tend to go to Claude (Code).
I go to ChatGPT for questions I have because I value an accurate answer over a quick answer and, in my experience, it tends to give me more accurate answers because of its (over) willingness to go to the web for search results and question its instincts. Claude is much more likely to make an assumption and its search patterns aren't as thorough. The slow answers don't bother me because it's an expectation I have for how I use it and they've made that use case work really well with background processing and notifications.
Not necessarily AI with 'hard guidelines' AI tools that pass output to a filter with 'hard guidelines' is definitely feasible.
Take the input as normal, pass it into Sora 2 and execute it as you would, pass the output through a filtering process that adheres to hard guidelines.
Of course, when talking about images, what is a 'hard guideline' here? Do you take the output and pass it through AI to identify if there's x y or z categorys of content here and then reject it?
Don't believe for a second that Sora will allow you to make racist content with Disney characters.
That said, there are a lot of other models out there that care about neither licensing nor alignment. So those will allow you to make racist content. Then you can do whatever you like with that generated content.
A lot of IP owners will learn that there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's easier than people think to turn children's characters, like say, Hermoine, into a raging racist. And there's very little technically speaking that they can do to stop it.
But yes, on OpenAI specific properties, they can definitely stop it dead in its tracks. They can even get better at stopping it over time. In fact, the more users try to generate it, the better the system will get at stopping it.
I'm sure that's what Disney's lawyers specified in the contracts and what their execs expect. However, judging by how LLM controls have gone in the past, I'm fully expecting to see a slew of awful content featuring Disney's characters in the days after this launches. OpenAI also probably won't ever be able to actually stop people from generating harmful content with the characters, but the volume of awful stuff will probably eventually slow down as people get bored and move onto the next controversial thing.
> Don't believe for a second that Sora will allow you to make racist content with Disney characters.
Yes, because AI's so far have been oh so resilient to jailbreaks and oh so great at picking out the potentially "not aligned with corporate values" content...
> Don't believe for a second that Sora will allow you to make racist content with Disney characters.
Don’t believe for a minute that whatever filters it uses will be sensitive enough to the way racist content is constructed to stop people from doing just that.
Given the creativity of the jailbreaking community I will be very impressed if OpenAI manage to reliably prevent Sora from creating disagreeable content with Disney characters.
I don't think that you will ever be able to generate Disney characters with the Sora app. Sora is both a model and an app. Instead I think that there will be a heavily guardrailed specialized app where you can do some highly restricted things for the opportunity for the content to show up on Disney+. Think of it as "Disney art! Powered by Sora".
> Don't believe for a second that Sora will allow you to make racist content with Disney characters.
It's not racist, it's an historically accurate depiction of 1930s Germany under the authority of a significant leader who may or may not be controversial today
Once you make the content it's just content, no? How the hell are you going to ban racism? A lot of racism is "dog whistle" stuff anyway -- it's designed to convey a message to people who already know what is being suggested while seeming innocuous to any enforceable standards of decency... The racists will surely have no trouble bending the models to produce Disney content that is in practice used to promote and celebrate racism.
OpenAI is the only SOTA model provider that doesn't have a cutoff date in the current year. That why it preforms bad at writing code for any new libraries or libraries that have had significant updates like Svelte.
State Of The Art is maybe a bit exaggerated. It's more like an early model that never really adapted, and only got watered down (smaller network, outdated information, and you cannot see thought/reasoning).
Also their models get dumber and dumber over time.
Yeah, but a lot of the rules around privacy and personal data make it hard to accept business from Europeans. If you are a small business or startup you might not even accept business from Europeans because navigating these rules are almost impossible.
I'm not sure how this makes sense. Functionally the rules are the same across the entire bloc and it's pretty straightforward: unless you have a legitimate reason to store the data, you need to ask for consent and the consent must be free. I want to make more money is not a legitimate reason. I have a legal requirement to fight financial fraud is a legitimate reason. Obviously the reality is more nuanced, but understanding this basic idea gets you there 95% of the way.
Just don't track users. Don't store any information you don't need, don't try to spy on them beyond what information they choose to share with you freely, and the GDPR has zero issues with you.
It quite obvious that open source models are catching up to closed source models very fast they about 3-4 months behind right now, and yeah they are trained on Nvidia chips, but as the open source models become more usable, and closer to closed source models they will eat into Nvidia profit as these companies aren't spending tens of billion dollars on chips to train and run inference. These are smaller models trained on fewer GPUs and they are performing as good as the pervious OpenAI and Anthropic models.
So obviously open source models are a direct threat to Nvidia, and they only thing open source models struggle at is scaling inference and this is where Groq and Cerberus come into the picture as they provide the fastest inference for open source models that make them even more usable than SOTA models.
Maybe I'm way off on this.