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> Or I guess you can do https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades and pray nothing breaks.

Better than getting compromised! I used to have a very conservative approach to changing anything, including great caution with security updates and the desire to avoid automatic security updates with a plan to carefully gate everything.

In practice though, security fixes are cherry-picked and therefore limited in scope, and outages caused by other factors are orders of magnitude more common than outages caused by security updates. Better to remain patched, in my opinion, and risk a non-security outage, than to get compromised by not applying them immediately.

A better way to mitigate the risk is to apply the CI philosophy to deployments. Every deployment component should come with a test to make sure it works in production. Add CI for that. Then automate security updates in production gated on CI having passed. If your security update fails, then it's your test that needs fixing.



fwiw, we do do https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades for the debian packages - I should have mentioned in the writeup.

But it's there are still a few custom things running around which aren't covered by that (e.g. custom python builds with go-faster-stripe decals; security upgrades which require restarts etc), hence needing the manual discipline for checking too. But given we need manual discipline for running & checking vuln scans anyway, not to mention hunting security advisories for deps in synapse, riot, etc, i maintain one of the hardest things here is to have the discipline to keep doing that, especially if you're in a small team and you're stressing about writing software rather than doing sysadmin.


Why won't you use https://github.com/liske/needrestart to automatically restart services that need restarting after security upgrades and unattendedupgrades or a cron job for rebooting the whole machine after kernel upgrades/periodically?

Shouldn't ansible do all this for you? I heard it's the recommended way for automatic updates and service restarts.

Please let me know about this as I'm interested myself.


I wonder what's missing from Debian to automate such things since my automation experience is mainly with RHEL. (I realize it may be partly a question of effort for automation, but it sounds as if that's not the root of it.)

Debian can restart processes dependent on updated packages and issue alerts about the need to, and you can automate checking for new releases of things for which you've done package backports. That doesn't finesse reboots for kernel updates and whatever systemd forces on you now, but I assume you can at least have live kernel patching as for the RHEL systems for which I used not to get system time.




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