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> Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia.

USA: 15.50 metric tons (2016) India: 1.82 metric tons (2016)

Source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?location...

One American is emitting 15 Indians worth of carbon emissions.

In terms of your claim that "western countries have reduced carbon emissions" it is important to realize that increasingly developed countries have been outsourcing most of their high polluting industries. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/18/1533104...

"During the early 2000s, these “emissions transfers” were growing at a stunning pace, nearly 11 percent per year, as more and more Western manufacturing was shifting to Asia. Factories making computers, electronics, apparel, and furniture would close in the US, open up in China, and then ship their products back home to the US. Americans got the goods; China got the pollution (and the jobs)."



> In terms of your claim that "western countries have reduced carbon emissions" it is important to realize that increasingly developed countries have been outsourcing most of their high polluting industries. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/18/1533104...

If you attribute to the US all the emissions that were outsoureced to other counties, the US has still reduced it's per-capita emissions: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

It's still way higher than India, but the claim that we've achieved the drop via outsourcing is wrong.


> One American is emitting 15 Indians worth of carbon emissions.

15.5 / 1.82 = 8.5

So more like One American is emitting 9 Indian's worth of carbon emissions.

Still a lot though.


Now, isolate those Indians who are living in India with an American standard of living (big house, car(s), frequent flyer), and I'm sure emissions will look a little bit more even. There are probably a lot more people living in poverty and not emitting much in India than in the U.S., it doesn't mean the situation per capita is better for these poor people in India that might lack electricity and plumbing (but on paper are living carbon neutral). Another case where the median might be better than the mean.


India's population is approximately 4.5 times that of USA, so the actual ratio is "one American is emitting 35 Indians worth of carbon emissions".


These numbers are already per capita, so the population difference is already accounted for.

So one USian emits as much as 9 Indians. Which is still a lot.


Per-capita is irrelevant. Total CO2 is the problem. The US is on the right trajectory, and all signs point towards de-carbonization intensifying with technology maturing as we speak (EVs, offshore wind, solar price plummeting, new homes being better insulated + heat pumps).


Per capita and development status IS relevant. How can you expect nations like India who still have populations in poverty, still have huge rural-urban migration, to be able to focus as much on green energy than a mature nation like Europe USA? The bigger humanitarian crisis in India is the sheer amount of poverty, not the impending climate crisis.


> One American is emitting 15 Indians worth of carbon emissions.

> it is important to realize that increasingly developed countries have been outsourcing most of their high polluting industries.

Neither of these points apply to the OP. They did not make the claim that the US emits more than India per capita. Secondly, your rebuttal of the point that "western countries have reduced carbon emissions" is not a rebuttal at all -- the OP specifically addressed this point in their comment if you read it. 90% of China's emission are directly caused by consumption, not manufacturing or export.

Of course the per-capita carbon footprint of the USA is unfairly high, and the result of a consumerist culture with poor urban planning, a legacy of racialized housing discrimination, etc. Although these are all very important concerns, they are ethical concerns. And the climate simply does not care about ethics.

The fact is that western countries are decreasing emissions and decarbonizing infrastructure, while China is still building coal plants for domestic consumption and attempting to export coal projects to poorer countries abroad in order to expand geopolitical soft power. If you believe that high levels of climate change have the potential to cause mass suffering around the world -- and particularly in the Global South -- then you must agree that the risk and harm involved in expanding coal outweighs the ethical concerns regarding per-capita carbon disparity.

That said, the Paris Accords specifically allow developing countries (China included) more time to lower their emissions compared to Western countries, precisely to account for inequitable per-capita carbon footprints. All western countries are on the right path -- the only question is if they're decarbonizing fast enough. The question for China is: will it even start decarbonizing soon enough?

China produces most of the world's solar panels and has amassed a wealth of research and development potential for renewable energy. The fact that they choose to continue building coal plants is inextricably tied up in political and geopolitical reasons.

As far as India goes, they have made a tremendous effort to meet their climate goals and the world owes them a huge debt.

Politically, I identify as a socialist, but I recommend this critique of the so-called "climate left" which includes analysis of some of the claims you made: https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/the-climate-left-is-a-usef...




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