I'm always amused when people complain about Ryanair. That horrible company deliberately destroys expectations to set the scene for getting away with the legal minimums for everything. Don't fly them, they won't change. If you do fly them, accept that you're supporting ultra-low cost, awful business practices and getting from A to B is about all you can expect.
Ryanair customers are not shopping with quality or cleanliness in mind. Their criteria for a flight is cost, and that's it.
If you complain about Ryanair's quality, you really aren't their target customer.
In my view, if you're paying 25 euros for a flight to Spain and then being outraged because the floor is a little bit dirty then you're a choosing beggar. Other airlines will sell you a quality flight on a similar route for 20x the cost.
Unfortunately sometimes you have no choice, for example when I visit my parents in my hometown the only airlines that fly there are Ryanair and Wizz Air, both of which are absolutely terrible.
The alternatives would be transfers through different countries with a hugely increased cost.
As another commenter suggested, the two cities are only connected by these two airlines.
People saying "I literally have a choice" don't understand that some people are not on 500k a year Silicon Valley salaries and we have to manage our finances and make compromises. I cannot afford to pay 500 EUR randomly to fly through a connection in another country instead of 50 EUR multiple times a year just to avoid a shitty airline.
The alternative would be to refuse to see my family because I want to make a point about a shitty airline.
I tried some of the cities from Ryanair’s system map, and it seems Oslo <-> Poznan is serviced only by Ryanair and Wizz Air. It’s certainly interesting to me that there are mid-sized cities better served by discount airlines
If I were temp_account_32, I think I would have would be grateful for those airlines, rather than focusing on their shitty aspects.
Sorry I don't want to dox this account eventually by people being able to piece too much information together, but let's just say a larger European city and a smaller European city.
And yes, I'm grateful that those connections even exist, it's just a shame that specifically those two are the ones servicing those routes. I suspect that there might not be enough demand for a better airline to step in.
It sounds more like those are the only two airlines to provide a direct connection between the two airports. I recall flying between Hungary and Spain on Wizzair for a similar reason once
Why are you outraged at an airline selling scratch cards but when every single airport in the world will sell you a scratch card, to accompany your 12 dollar black coffee or 8 dollar bottle of water?
But I'll bait. There is a difference between passive advertising that blends into the background and multiple people walking up and down the isle literally waving scratch cards while another person is drawing attention to them with a loudspeaker. I'm not outraged because of how wrong that is. I recall it because there is a degree of vulgarity to it.
Just like there is a difference between knowing where to go to buy drugs, seeing a drug dealer on the corner, having that drug dealer casually say "drugs?" as you walk by, having the drug dealer put ads in your mailbox, and having them knock on your door and ask if you want to buy drugs.
No, certainly not. Gambling is banned on US aircraft.
They are talking about RyanAir, which is an Irish carrier that flys all over Europe and offers scratch card gambling. Swissair also offered gambling via video screens for a period of time.
Flight crew are there first and foremost for your safety. That is what they are trained for. Their primary job is not to be janitors or servers, though they obviously play those roles to some degree. If it wasn't for the safety requirements, we'd likely have a single overworked staff member to handle food and drink service (at least on mid-size flights).
But yeah, planes are a bit gross, and I bring wipes with me for the arm rests and touch screen. Of course the best thing we could all do is to simply clean up after ourselves, which should be easy for all the non-idiots out there. They don't come around to collect trash 4-5 times per flight for the fun of it. They're trying to make it easy for you, and they do.
This attitude is stupid (sorry). If I value a clean plane, I don't care what the supposed role of the flight crew is. The issue is that the carrier doesn't have someone cleaning the plane. It's not my job as a customer to debate who should do it, nor is it to pontificate about how hypothetically we should all do better and keep the plane clean.
These low cost carriers have determined that having a clean plane is not important to their revenue, and so they don't. Discussion about the crew being there "for my safety" and not to clean accomplishes nothing, it's just a kind of empty internet point that gets brought up
> These low cost carriers have determined that having a clean plane is not important to their revenue, and so they don't.
Another perspective is these low cost carriers have determined sufficient passengers in their target market are not willing or able to pay sufficiently higher prices to have that level of cleaning before each flight.
I get the whole bottom of the barrel market thing but cleaning between flight still seems like something that wouldn't be a huge expense? Maybe it costs a lot more for time on the tarmac or something?
You become a RyanAir by cutting everything you can get away with. All those not-huge expenses bundled together represent a significant increase in profit margin.
I don't think GP's attitude was stupid, though I do think your response was (sorry).
For those of us who have always known planes are filthy and not wiped down, we carry a sanitizing wet wipe.
Btw it's not just low cost carriers, the dirtiest planes I've found are the larger carriers.
Your health is your responsibility foremost. Later in life you'll find noone else is looking out for you more than you.
TLDR: sanitize key objects before touching or your hands after if you're that concerned. TV remotes in hotels, trays in planes, after touching gas pumps etc.
I was on a recent Delta flight and they had cleaners come in and wipe everything. Not sure if it's something everything flight. It was to Atlanta where it's their hub so maybe they have a dedicated staff there.
I didn't see the video of clouds from the seat but IMHO that's prob common...I remember as a kid hitting office chairs and seeing dusts puff up.
The article cited Ryan air a lot, but like Frontier Airlines, I imagine cheap tickets means bad customer service as their staff is paid just enough to do their jobs but not care...that's talking from personal experience of how rude and unknowledgable Frontier staff (not just one but all interactions on my one flight) was compared to other airlines.
The dust video is linked to (below is the Daily Mail video, possibly a less disgusting visit than Facebook?). It’s quite impressive. Qantas helpfully mention that they disinfect the plane once a month, whether it needs it or not. This is reassuring in covid times.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11158907/Qantas-pas...
It doesn’t surprise me Delta and the major carriers are cleaning. I don’t fly low cost carriers for this and many other reasons. I encourage others to do the same. The consumer has the power to vote with their wallet.
This is a good reason to wear a mask on a flight, regardless of how you feel about COVID. You might as well be sitting in a public bathroom for several hours.
Ha ha, Thom Yorke on plane flights: "I was curious to work out what that smell is in an air plane. What is that smell? It's a combination of air conditioning and stale farts, which is a charming thought."
No amount of marketing nor "science" is going to change my mind: Aircraft cabin air is /motherfucking/ foul.
You don't need to be an aerodynamics engineer to understand this either: Take a deep breath inside a usual aircraft cabin and tell me if that air is fresh and clean. If you do, either you are fucking lying out your ass or you never tasted truly clean, fresh air in your life.
You might have a point hidden behind the hostility, but it's not very convincing when you scare-quote the word science and claim that no amount of contradicting data would make you change your mind.
Is anything that comes in the form of an academic paper bullshit in your mind, or just the ones about plane air quality?
If anyone can scientifically demonstrate that aircraft cabin air is clean, sure I'm open to changing my mind. And no, not the air measured as it gets filtered; I'm talking about the air as it enters our noses while in the presence of several hundred tightly packed people with little elbow room.
Practically speaking, anyone who has ever been inside an aircraft cabin can speak all day about that distinctive "aircraft smell": A cocktail of smells that reminds one of industrial petroleum products, aged metal and plastics, human sweat and other biological waste products, dust, and tired cloth, among many other unpleasant things.
Noone is ever going to convince me that air that smells like /that/ is "clean", regardless how many layers of HEPA it's been through.
>If anyone can scientifically demonstrate that aircraft cabin air is clean, sure I'm open to changing my mind.
And
>Noone is ever going to convince me that air that smells like /that/ is "clean"
Seem to be at odds with each other. But, for what it's worth, I agree that there is a distinctive "aircraft smell" whenever I've flown, and I'm not particularly keen on breathing it in either.
It's not contradictory; if anyone can scientifically demonstrate that air which smells foul is in fact clean, perhaps in defiance of natural instincts, I would have to concede it's clean because facts are facts.
Thing is, I haven't seen anything from anyone to that effect other than the "air is cycled through HEPA" canned PR response which is hardly convincing.
If there are scientific papers which note the contents of aircraft cabin air and compares it to objective definitions of clean air, coming to the conclusion the aircraft cabin air is clean, I'm interested and maybe they can change my mind.
HEPA filters only remove particulates. VOCs (organic compounds) are reaponsible for the smells and these require more expensive carbon filters at the very least...
Ok, but research indicates that air circulation thru HEPA filters on planes is actually pretty good and this results in the air being thoroughly cleaned. So while certainly not fresh the evidence seems to indicate clean.
I gotta be honest, I enjoy having friends like this. It's refreshing, honest and radical. I dont mind the tone, not sure why. I commonly disagree vehemently with them.
Unfortunately though, most of my friends will never meet eachother, to preserve world peace.
I don't know. I fly United, primarily in First/Business. I regularly see disgusting seats, seatback pockets, empty wrappers, dust, sticky trays. I really don't think price or class of service has anything to do with it.
United seems to be servicing a customer base slightly above frontier but below delta now, I don’t think their prices (and quality) have been increasing over time.
Agreed, United prices right now are incredibly high right now. I think its a mix of both supply and demand side issues. A good portion of their 777 fleet was grounded due to issues with the engines, and there was a huge boom in customers during the summer.
I really wish I had an actual choice of airlines in my routes. I would choose Delta or Southwest (at least pre-pandemic, Southwest was terrific, may not be the case now) every time if I had the option.
Domestic or international? I flew with United transatlantic around 10 times and after hearing nothing but bad things about them online for years, I was quite pleasantly surprised by how much better they were compared to companies like Lufthansa, for example. But maybe it's just me... I also loved Air France, another massively hated airline.
A good mix of both, my flight history is on FlightRadar[1]. Most of my spend is on International, most of my flights are domestic.
I don't hate United, they're actually my airline of choice and I've held their 1K status since 2018. Based out of SFO and a frequent flyer its really the best choice as they hold close to 50% of the flights out of SFO. Maintaining 1K is totally worth it as anytime I call in I get a representative within 30 seconds, and in case of irrops I'm basically guaranteed a seat on the next flight.
My to biggest complaints are cleanliness and the service on board. I'd say neither of these are BAD, but there are other, better airlines.
Cleanliness: If I had to estimate, I can note cleanliness issues on a third of my flights on United. The worst is looking in the seat pockets or looking at the air vents above the windows (don't look there on any airline its usually disgustingly full of dust).
Service: As for service on board, the flight attendants are a little more rough, less attentive than other airlines on the same route. A common route for me is SFO-NRT and ANA flight attendants are checking in every 5 minutes during dinner service, where as United FA often disappear. The ANA food is of quality I would pay for not even on a plane. On United, I often get offered "chicken or fish", no paper menu, no table cloth, even in business. I think some of this is United being slow to bring back a higher quality of service post-pandemic, whereas ANA never dropped their quality of service.
United Polaris hard product is good but the service is a joke. I have honestly had better service in economy on some (Asian) airlines. ANA business class is exceptional in comparison. I would never choose to fly United on that route. My last flight I was greeted with “Did I take your order yet? [They forgot… on a 1/4 full business class.] Ok, what do you want? … It’s chicken or fish. [No menus unlike nearly every airline in the world.] Great.” and that was 1 of 3 times a flight attendant talked to me on a 12 hour flight. Bizarre.
Surely you are joking. Lufthansa used to be bad ~15 years ago, but International United is on a whole different level.
I used to fly regularly from OZ to the US and often had to take United as they used to often be the cheapest by quite a margin. They had the oldest and most uncomfortable cabins on those routes. The cabin crew is absolutely atrocious, everytime they come through the cabin shouting "elbows and knees" (why is that so common on US Airlines? Never heard it anywhere else) and still manage to bump into everything. I have had coffee spilled on me at least 4 times and not once did I get an apology (and no I didn't have my elbow out). If you ask for something you often get rudely told off..
The food is absolutely the worst I ever ate on a plane and it goes on.
Flying commercial is one of the least dignified forms of travel and has been for a long time. Regulators already have the ability to step in and penalize carriers for poor behavior, but they don’t. The relationship between business and regulators needs to be seriously upended. The regulators are supposed to work for the people, not the airlines.
I'm not very concerned about chips (or crisps, where this video was taken I imagine). I'm more worried about armrests and handles not being disinfected and what's in the water containers and heaters. Those are real gross I heard.
I’m planning a trip to the DC area in a couple months and I’m increasingly thinking that it makes sense to rent a car and do the 10–11 hour drive from Chicago rather than fly. It will be cheaper and while I won’t have the freedom to read/write on the trip and I’ll spend more time in transit, I’ll also have the freedom from being crowded into an airport and then a plane. Plus, I’ll be able to visit friends/family along the way.
Yeah, I have another trip that’s 8 hours and it was a clear win to drive rather than fly. Since I’d be renting a car in DC, I think this is another case where driving wins.
I don’t like flying but I think this feeling is a little extreme.
Airports really aren’t that crowded at all (other than a couple of pinch points), and just wear a mask and mind your business on the flight and you’re done in a couple of hours. I’ve flown 4 times in the past 3 months and each flight was actually quite pleasant.
I don’t fly anywhere anymore. People are too rude, disruptive and just plain gross. I did a 15 hour drive to Tucson recently in lieu of flying. Ate up two days of our vacation but screw it. No regrets apart from my butt going numb a couple times.
I travel 17 hours by car for the same reasons, plus the freedom of having my car when I'm there. I also often bring things with me, or back with me, that I wouldn't be able to do on a plane (like a kayak).
If you have people to visit along the way, that makes it a no-brainer IMO.
Audiobooks are a must! In 10-11 hours you could easily finish a lengthy book or two. You can usually digitally rent audiobooks from your local library, check out their website!
> “--- that is foul,” one commenter wrote on Facebook.
Amazingly in 2022 "journalism" constitutes copy-pasting comments from Facebook and TikTok posts. From the NYT no less. These are the people that think you should pay to read this paywalled rubbish. This phenomenon isn't unique to them either.
Edit: Apparently the content copy-pasted by the NYT is such trash that HN auto-dead'd my comment for merely quoting it.
I get irrationally angry when the news reports on what people tweeted.
Sometimes they're literally anonymous, unsourced one-line opinions. I've seen articles that were collections of these, passed as commentary on politics or the news!
I mentally avoid a bunch of American newspapers because every article I see from them could be about a dozen people on social media. The New York Times is especially guilty of this.
A dozen people tweet that they're moving somewhere, and suddenly "X are moving in droves to Y".
A dozen people stop doing something, and suddenly it's "the death of X".
A dozen people do something dumb and suddenly it's "we need to stop X" or "we need to talk about X" like it's 30 percent of the population.
Ryan Air is so cheap. For example, picking the farthest away gate at the airport, travelers pass by dozens of inactive gates that were not chosen.
I amuse myself with the feels that they sometimes must pay extra to retain that image. Like, what if all those dozens of gates all cost the same, but only the farthest away gives you that feeling odd futility?
When the Ryanair guy gets in the news for suggesting some new outrageous cost cutting measure it’s not because they really plan to swap the seats for battery cages to save space, it’s because they need to keep up the image of being the cheapest
Flights that go to certain countries or that members of certain countries fly through tend to be exceptionally dirty. You know who you are, fam. I’ve been on emirates flights that look like a trash tornado hit them after a 15 hour flight. Be neat!
Eh, just call it out, it's India and its subcontinental neighbours. And the reason is less culture and more there being a lot of first-time passengers going to menial jobs in the Gulf, who have been recruited from deep in the countryside and are entirely unfamiliar with things like non-squat toilets and how garbage collection works on planes.
I once flew DEL-AUH next to a gentleman who was clearly very puzzled with nearly every component of his in-flight meal. Not sharing any languages, I helped him out best I could with sign language, but I still remember his expression of surprised delight when he poured one packet's contents straight into his mouth, expecting gutka (powdered smokeless tobacco) but getting powdered coffee creamer instead.
I’m not worried about the boogers on the carpet but every time I fly now there are a few people on the plane with a horrific cough but no mask, meanwhile the pilot reads a script asking us all to respect each other’s masking choices lol
The article says flight attendants don't vacuum between flights. But I once lost my phone on a southwest flight (I was sleeping and didn't notice it missing until we landed.) The flight attendants let me stay on the plane after everybody else disembarked to look for it. One of them was vacuuming while I searched. That was some years ago though, maybe things have changed. I found my phone under a seat a few rows away.
I believe it's part of SouthWest's corporate culture that the crew helps clean the aircraft. Yes that means even the pilots and stewardesses put on rubber gloves after the flight.
Like everything else, it's outsourced. A bunch of minimum-wage cleaners employed by a contractor at the airport come onto the plane and go through it...but that requires the plane have idle time at the gate between flights, and airlines are cutting every corner they possibly can.
The Times author, and flight attendants, seem to miss the point. I paid for a seat. I likely paid a fuckton of money for it, and I expect it to be clean such that neither I nor my clothing and belongings get dirty or become contaminated with biohazardous fluids.
Not enough turnaround time to clean? The airline didn't schedule enough time for cleaning and inspection and that is not my problem.
No equipment or supplies on the plane? The airline didn't equip the plane (or the terminal) with supplies to handle a common event (spilled food, passenger body fluids) and that is not my problem.
Flight attendant thinks it's beneath them to keep the plane clean? The airline isn't properly disciplining its employees and that is not my problem.
Smells like it's time for an FAA regulations around all this stuff.
I know a little about SW. "Like everything else, it's outsourced." is an unnecessarily broad statement. That being said, the interior cleaners are outsourced[1]. Contract terms are city-specific and there is a minimum requirement for which planes are cleaned (eg always overnights) and when.
> I paid for a seat.
Which has fine print, which makes fewer guarantees than you're comfortable with...which isn't really a problem. Don't buy the ticket, don't suffer.
> I likely paid a fuckton of money for it
Probably not. A round trip from Southern California to Minnesota is usually less than an uber from Los Angeles to San Diego, depending on how far in advance and timing, etc etc. Guess what Ubers don't do either?
Southwest planes are often delayed due to cleaning needs, regardless of the binary framing of the policies. I guess the COVID scare has just elevated routine policies to a political level, while we enjoy a previously unimaginable level of freedom, choice, and low-cost travel.
[1] My brother is a senior ramp agent about to retire, who happens to be working a shift he couldnt give away tonite.
