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> They're ruining Marvel properties as well. They care more about pushing progressive ideologies

you sound like someone has never read a Marvel comic book in their life.



That's ignorant, I own thousands of both Marvel and DC comics from the 90s and 2000s.


Not as ignorant as claiming Disney is ruining Marvel by "pushing progressive ideologies"


And yet you didn't notice that progressive ideology was a big part of Marvel's entire existence?


Yes, I know because Stan Lee created the X-men, people love to claim Marvel was always super progressive. I'm sorry, but that simply is not the case, and you are wrong. 99% of comic books I own have zero trace of your supposed progressivism.


>Yes, I know because Stan Lee created the X-men, people love to claim Marvel was always super progressive. I'm sorry, but that simply is not the case, and you are wrong. 99% of comic books I own have zero trace of your supposed progressivism.

Correct.

Marvel and DC comics up to a few years ago, and the pre-Discovery Star Trek franchise, shared a broad-church liberal view of the world. Stories that explicitly pushed an agenda for the sake of agenda-pushing were mocked by fans, and other writers would ignore them or explicitly retcon the stories out.

Now we have (no joke) a transvestite member of the Legion of Super-Heroes travel 1000 years to the present day to march in a Pride parade.


What's an example of Disney "progressivism" that didn't exist in Pre-Disney Marvel?


Race and gender swapping every established popular character? Checklist casting? Butchering She-Hulk and The Wasp with this insane "girl boss" fetish (Let's not forget the cringe girlboss moment from Endgame)? Making shows like "Echo" and "Agatha Harkness" that appeal to almost no one for the sake of having female leads?

This isn't even considering the comics, which as an industry, has been dying because of all the same behaviors. Last I heard The Punisher's wife came back from the dead to berate him for killing people and to divorce him.

Who wants to read that tripe? Who wants to listen to Ant-man's annoying daughter lecture people? No one.


> Race and gender swapping every established popular character?

What exactly makes that "progressivism"? Also why don't you consider characters like X-23 a gender swapped Wolverine?


You don't think diversity is progressive? Also, yes of course I consider X-23 to be a gender swapped Wolverine.


wait wait wait - you think that the characters not being all white men is "progressive"? that would mean that reality is progressive, right?


Not only is "diversity" not new for Marvel but X-23 was created prior to the Disney purchase.


One data point does not make a trend. Post-Disney is when the trend started. Also a downward trend... of sales.


> One data point does not make a trend.

How many have to exist before it can be considered "progressivism"/"diversity" then? Also can you provide those examples that occurred post-Disney? As a huge marvel fan it should be easy for you do. As someone who isn't a huge marvel fan I can think of several off the top of my head that occurred pre-Disney.


    Miles Morales (Spider-Man), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2011
    Jane Foster (Thor), original character: Thor Odinson, first appearance: 2014
    Riri Williams (Ironheart), original character: Tony Stark/Iron Man, first appearance: 2016
    Laura Kinney (X-23), original character: Logan/Wolverine, first appearance: 2004
    Sam Wilson (Captain America), original character: Steve Rogers/Captain America, first appearance: 2014
    Carol Danvers (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 2012
    Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 1982
    America Chavez (Miss America), original character: Joey Chapman/Miss America, first appearance: 2011
    Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel), original character: Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel, first appearance: 2013
    Kate Bishop (Hawkeye), original character: Clint Barton/Hawkeye, first appearance: 2005
    Gwen Stacy (Spider-Woman, aka Spider-Gwen), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2014


> Miles Morales (Spider-Man), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2011

> Jane Foster (Thor), original character: Thor Odinson, first appearance: 2014

> Riri Williams (Ironheart), original character: Tony Stark/Iron Man, first appearance: 2016

> Laura Kinney (X-23), original character: Logan/Wolverine, first appearance: 2004

> Sam Wilson (Captain America), original character: Steve Rogers/Captain America, first appearance: 2014

> Carol Danvers (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 2012

> Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 1982

> America Chavez (Miss America), original character: Joey Chapman/Miss America, first appearance: 2011

> Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel), original character: Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel, first appearance: 2013

> Kate Bishop (Hawkeye), original character: Clint Barton/Hawkeye, first appearance: 2005

> Gwen Stacy (Spider-Woman, aka Spider-Gwen), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2014

Disney purchased Marvel in 2009(let's be honest 2010 is closer to the real year), only 7 of the 10 you listed occurred under Disney's watch. Big marvel fan indeed. Since you listed 7 times a race and/or a gender was swapped (I won't bother differentiating between swaps vs additions, e.g calling Ghost Spider a swap is a massive stretch.) under Disney as proof of "pushing progressive ideologies" I must assumed that is your threshold for something to be considered a trend. Here are 4 (plus the 3 your listed) times a race and/or a gender swap occurred under the previous Marvel owner's watch.

Michael Clarke Duncan as King Pin

Nick Fury (Ultimate Marvel Team-Up)

Lady Bullseye

Miss Sinister

Its almost as if Marvel did this sort of thing before Disney was involved, interesting.


I googled some of those out of curiosity, many of them had failed solo lines.

It seems Iron Man the movie with Robert Downey Jr (2008) really saved them,and restored them back to cultural relevance beyond the X-men + Spiderman.

Though the overall trend for marvel comics are tanking especially compared to Manga/Manwha.




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