You don't get to assault old people in restaurants because they're "fascists". These weren't fascists; they were Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers. The worst. You still don't get to storm restaurants and assault them.
The Nazi restaurant incident is an interesting microcosm of the whole Hammond case.
Weirdly enough, the near-north suburbs of Chicago do have a problem with old, holocaust-denying Nazis.
Another ironic dimension to the restaurant assault and its parallels to the whole Hammond case: the one guy that got injured in that incident was injured by a protester, and had nothing to do with the Nazis; he was just an innocent bystander.
Really glad this was brought up because I just realized an old acquaintance of mine was also arrested at the same event along with Hammond O_O. Add that to the fact that my credit card was leaked as a part of the Stratfor hack, and the fact that I happened to live 2 blocks away from where Sabu did, and I have an unsettling number of weird connections to this case.
Not categorically. I've had the displeasure of meeting a holocaust denier that was pretty into Occupy shit, anti-corporatism, and communal living (I think the common thread there was the "Bankers are Jewish" stereotype. We're talking about people with critical thinking deficiencies, consistency is not a given...)
Well, he was definitely anti-Semitic. I'd say that at least in the strictest sense he was a Nazi apologist, as he was also a holocaust denier (standard "it's all exaggerated" rhetoric). I don't think he bought into the politics of the Nazis, but I would be a little surprised if he was actually aware of that sort of thing in the first place...
Fascism is a term that is bandied about without much thought these days. Its well worth reading the overview on the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Many Nazi beliefs aren't strictly fascist, comparing with the Italian Fascist Party may provide some insight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Fascist_Party It's easy to conflate the two, and while fascism and Nazism are cleary undesirable they are not the same.
Nazi apologists may for example concentrate on Holocaust denial, while having little time for an authoritarian nationalised state.
I agree the term is far too broadly applied, but Fascism is not synonymous with Mussolini. The Wikipedia page you link to also categorizes Nazism is one kind of fascism.
I'm not sure what you mean? The Nazi party was a fascist organisation...among other things. Mussolini's party was fascist as well. I dont think it was possible to be a Nazi supporter and not a proponent of a Fascist agenda in the 1930's/40's but todays Nazi apologists are often primarily interested in the Nazi's racist and antisematic agenda. For many people Nazi apologism is strongly and perhaps primarily linked with Holocaust denial.
The word Fascism may today primarily conjure images of Hitler and the Third Reich, but in the thirties it was strongly tied with Italy as well.
Your parent comment sounded like you said that Nazis are not fascist. Fascism is a broad historical tradition, and of course contains Italy, Nazis, and a whole host of other terrible stuff. I should know: fascists are my enemies, as they're directly ideologically opposed, and there's a long history there, as well as personal, real-world political work.
Anyway, I think the fine line of disagreement here is that I personally see "Nazi apologist" as someone who is an apologist for _all_ of National Socialism, not just certain policies. You may be correct that today, people could consider anyone who's denying the holocaust to be a "Nazi apologist."
Discovered this tidbit on a placard in the Andy Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh. One of the least "fascist" art museums I ever visited.
Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism
Dr. Lawrence Britt studied the fascist regimes of Hitler’s Nazi Germany, Mussolini’s Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia. He found fourteen defining characteristics common to each.
Powerful and Continuing Expressions of Nationalism — Fascism makes constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Military pride and unity are encouraged. Flags are everywhere, as are flag symbols in public displays, or pinned to clothing.
Disdain for Human Rights — These are viewed as a hinderance to achieving their goals. Through propaganda, the population is made to accept this abuse by marginalizing and demonizing those being targeted. Tactics include secrect, denial, and disinformation. The people ignore or approve of torture, assassination, incarceration without formal charges, etc.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause — The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic, sexual or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Supremacy of the Military — Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of funding, while domestic needs are neglected. The military is glamorized, and used to assert national goals and intimidate other nations.
Rampant Sexism — The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion, and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
Controlled Mass Media — Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by subtler government regulation: the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. Censorship is very common.
Obsession with National Security — Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses, and questioning its activities is portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
Religion and Government are Intertwined — Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
Corporate Power is Protected — The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are those who put the government leaders in power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite, especially in the repression of the poor.
Labor Power is Suppressed — Because the organizing power of labor is a threat to fascism, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. The working poor form an underclass, and are viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor is considered a vice.
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts — Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. Professors and other academics espousing unorthodox ideas are censored, harassed, or arrested. Free expression is the arts and letters is openly attacked. Art and literature serve the national interest, or they don’t exist.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment — Fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption — Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in facist regimes for national resources to be appropriated or even stolen by government leaders.
Fraudulent Elections — Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Others times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, disenfranchising oppositions voters, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascism uses the judiciary to manipulate or control elections.
Source: Adapted from Fascism Anyone? in Free Inquiry, Spring 2003
This makes good reading, but is obviously a back-rationalized definition meant to make a modern political point. Fascism is defined principally by the primacy of the state. "Fraudulent elections"? What elections? A fascist state is a one-party state. "Labor power is suppressed"? What labor power? Fascist industry is nationalized.
I won't deny that there may be back rationalization present. But I am not sure what the point is. To pretend anybody has a "pure" view of history seems somewhat beyond a possibility. Everyone wears the rose colored glasses of their present historical and political moment and condition. It simply is not possible to see history outside of that, I would contend. Some arguments are perhaps more intellectually honest than others. And we all operate under varying degrees of self-delusion. But I digress.
Address a couple of your points:
Fraudulent elections: not all forms of government are duly elected by a people, but there is generally some process of a decision making body coming together that can be called "elections". And this process is always ripe for manipulation. I think one could resonably point to the Reichstag Fire and its political fallout as suppressing the German Communist vote and was a form of fraudulent electioneering.
Labor power is suppressed: There is a well documented history of forced labor within Nazi Germany during WWII. It is one of the reasons the German War Machine held on as long as it did despite heavy allied bombing and sabotage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule...
I think it is reasonable to say the individuals in these camps didn't have access to the benefits of free association and what in general terms a strong union and workers rights oriented economy would provide. If we can't call that a form of "suppressing labor power" then what would you suggest we use to describe the phenomenon?
I wasn't writing in a strictly logical sense. "These people are worse than your run-of-the-mill fascists" or "these are the worst fascists" is something that's formulated in a way that sounds less contradictory.
What trinkets?
In and out of prison and probation for years. Wow, that means nothing, especially when you consider what those were for.
I didn't talk to him "on a daily basis" and had many disagreements with him, at times coming to near physical confrontation. But you are a tool.