What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either.
If Linux is going to find a place in mainstream education, it's going to have to earn it. This is of course quite possible. Raspberry Pi is a good example of this. I can see Linux forming a valuable part of a more advanced secondary school computing curriculum too.
The article is living in the past though. Many children now, and many more in then future will equate computers with tablets. Some will run iOS, others will run Android and maybe some might even run Windows. Decisions about which solution best serves the educational needs of children should be in the hands of educators, not technological partisans.
My normal day involves dissecting frogs, working out quickly equations like 13x12 in my head and calculating when two trains heading in opposite directions are going to pass each other.
Just last week, I was held at gunpoint and told to find the integral of an equation, then - you won't believe this - my boss said I was fired unless I could write 1000 words on Jane Austin's "Pride and Prejudice" by the following day.
I have never had to encounter linux, and I'm so glad there are people like you fighting to keep education relevant!
I don't wish to hijack this thread but tying the Raspberry Pi to education is terrible if you ask me.
I agreed about the Raspberry Pi being the best device for education right from day one. That was until my father bought my daughter one for her birthday and I ended up being the resident "fix it guru" for it.
The thing teaches you merely how to jump through funny shaped hoops to get something working rather than anything realistic or helpful. Most of it is google-fu and copy and paste. When you do finally get there it's a baron land of absolutely unrealistic, undocumented crud that can't self-serve. Plus it barely works and browns out to start with resulting in USB-hub jiggery-pokery (and that only happens because I actually understand how USB works).
For ref, I have 20 years' of Unix and Linux experience (right down to writing kernel drivers) and it was painful getting it off the ground so I'm not approaching it blind.
Being critical (constructively!) of this results in the RPI forum thread being deleted which in itself an affront and a general recommendation against the things.
Could it be that you were exited about fiddling with rpi yourself? I don't have children but I guess it's difficult to deliberately not help them (too much) solving problems which are inherently interesting to you (grumpy neckbeardism can't hide that fact, you obviously still care about this).
I think rpi (culture/ecosystem) is still absolutely the best thing, it's literally the perfect AppleII/C64 for today. Today is also more complex and more stuff is possible but there is also Unix which at least tries to be simple.
I've given one of my rpis to my 13 year old neighbour and he is regularly meddling with it. It's likely that he is also constantly failing but that's what is needed in order to learn, it certainly was the case for me when I started (I'm still failing after many years, that's a reality).
Where you could make a difference is just by saying you'll be there to answer some questions ... now and then. Encouragement and enthusiasm!
Not particularly excited. After spending a number of years with embedded systems, my tolerance has faded a little. We tried the "follow the instructions" and no help thing to start with. Unfortunately we were blessed with only a composite video cable which is to be fair, a flipping nightmare of reading inconclusive LED states and fumbling around in the dark with no video output. That is where the documentation stops and years of prior experience of embedded systems and knowing what to search for kicks in. Each step came with its own pile of crud to deal with. Each hoop jumped through chips a little bit of interest away. The inevitable question that gets asked is:
"Dad: is this what your job is about?"
It's not and never has been.
The perfect Apple 2 / C64 (or in my case, BBC Model B) was the one that you opened the box, plugged it in and it worked the moment you turned it on without fail, every time and never poked you in the eye unless you told it to.
I still think the (partial inspiration for the Pi) i.e. the BBC Micro is still a better starting point than the Pi itself. Well documented, relatively simple, very powerful, forgiving and the ability to write high level (basic) or low level code (assembly) from the get go from the books that came with it, can play games on it and if you screw anything up, just restart it.
True we aren't at Apple II level, open hardware would be great but as I said the whole culture surrounding it as well as the documentation which exists is really good. It's still a very cool project which succeed to get this ball rolling, obviously there is room for improvement.
I won a grant to build, donate, and maintain Raspberry Pi computers to rural schools in South Africa (about 7). It was a large project. Absolute nightmare. In the end I just started buying second hand computers and installing XUbuntu (much higher performance, much lower cost). I donated the Raspberry Pis to a university engineering department and managed to buy double the expected number in second hand computers for rural schools, feel much better about it. Raspberry Pi is simply a gimmick for those that love that kind of thing (which is fine), but it should NOT be marketed as a way to get kids to learn programming, or as a replacement for a computer. It's simply too expensive, and does not cater to the educational needs of those struggling to learn programming/IT.
I'm interested to hear in the problems you had and how getting 2nd hand computers turn out to be lower cost than the Pi. Do you have a write-up of your experience somewhere? Couldn't find anything on your HN profile.
Yes the RPI could use a bit of improvement. It needs better X performance and a restart switch. But the RPI is the best small computer out there with the most support. Give it a few iterations and improvements and it could really be useful at home.
My problem is that in 1982 you could really impress your kids with simple programs. Now my child wouldn't be impressed unless you create an 3D princess game. The hurdle to catch a child's imagination is 10x higher.
sounds like it fits perfectly into education then. It's much like a lot of the working world as well. A lesson in grit perhaps? A lesson in our tenuous grasp in technology. At least it's something that can be held in your hands and not a group's invented agreement about how something should be (grammar) or subjective watered down recounts of reality (social studies).
The author's argument is mainly that Windows as a dominant OS for school computers is more expensive than Linux, and is proprietary.
What the author fails to take into account is that the major cost to schools and school systems is the continuing cost of ownership for these computers. Updates, maintenance, tech support, all cost time and money. I regularly perform alternatives analyses for clients, and while I'd love to more often recommend open source solutions, the risk of finding qualified support or full-time employees, and the often greater costs associated with that service, is usually too high to not go proprietary (all features and needs being otherwise equal).
However, I do agree with the spirit of one of the author's ethos(es?), and perhaps disagree with simonh here -- a flavor of Linux shouldn't be discounted because the students may never see it again. The OS really doesn't matter so long as tools are provided for word processing, performing internet research and exploring information that students may discover. There's a wealth of this in the mainstream Linux distros and I think it'd be a fine alternative.
You're contradicting yourself in the rush to sound like an authority.
Androids is a Linux computer.
Learning linux is vital - because Linux runs everywhere, and almost everything!
Been on a train in Europe? Your life is being protected by Linux. Made an Internet connection in the USA? You're using Linux, somewhere.
Teaching kids to use the Linux OS should be as equally valid an approach as teaching them Windows. The Linux ecosystem is as equally viable as any other - so why should kids miss out on the value of this technology, just because a corporate lackey has managed to make a deal with school administrators?
>Androids is a Linux computer.
>
>Learning linux is vital - because Linux runs everywhere, and almost everything!
Is using Android really your idea of learning Linux? iOS is a Unix variant too. Do you really think those facts are in any way relevant to the learning experience of children using them? That's pure technological partisanship, based on an agenda that has nothing whatever to do with education.
Well, do you want kids to understand their computing systems, or would you prefer they just be placid consumers? I think you're asking for the latter just because you have a personal grudge against "Linux" not being some corporate property.
Linux is a commons resource. ABSOLUTELY, children should know how they can use the commons resource they have available to them - anything else, and you set up future generations for even more corporate control.
In case you're an un-educated American who doesn't know what the commons is, and why Linux is such an important resource when viewed from a commons perspective, educate yourself:
I know that commons is anathema to American industrial thinking, but alas .. this is precisely why its important to educate our children on what rights, responsibilities, and resources they have available to them. Linux is a very, very powerful tool which belongs to everyone. Microsoft Windows belongs to the shareholders of Microsoft - and nobody else.
I don't have to understand how my car works in order to be able to use it. Sure, everyone would benefit from someday learning to use Linux, but to say it's vital is extreme exaggeration.
You say that now, but wait until your car is broken down in the middle of nowhere and you really need to get home.
You see, your argument doesn't really work in your favour, either - because cars have been following the computerization model (or is it the other way around) for years .. whereas you once could have worked on your car, now its completely locked down, you need special proprietary tools to work on it, and you're not going to be able to function as a driver without further investing in the infrastructure. A pity, as it used to be that kids in their teens could repair cars, if they need to.
Do you really think your position improves society, or perhaps it just serves to justify its current state of utter incompetence?
In the early 1980s, Apple decided that they were going to own the education market. They sent salespeople to school districts, explaining that computers -- the future of education, as everyone and magazine articles said -- could be affordable, and here was a complete plan including discounts, financing, and software.
The result was that the Apple II series did take over the education market, and also sold quite a few machines to the parents of kids who used Apples in school.
School is not about making you smart or giving you a job. It's about giving them the power to drive their lives.
Computer education is important and should really have a more important part. And when I say computer, I'm not advocating for PC, mobiles, Windows, Linux, or whatever thing whose market share will have drastically changed in ten years.
Children should be taught that they can have a computer do tasks for them and, if possible, without practical dependence on whichever architecture/OS you pick. I don't care which system they train on, as long as they get that computers are logical systems with predictable output. I don't care which language they learn, as long as it makes them understand computers are not some black boxes but things they can control.
Also, I would like such an education to teach that the Internet is not some big corporation controlled by shady lolcatz or a box supervised by elders in Big Ben. I would like them to know that the World is vast and that the Internet is shallow; the Internet is in their reach and allow them to go farther than ever (geographically, but also intellectually).
tl;dr: the important is making them understand they can, not necessarily how (they should be able to teach themselves specific skills)
Why would he. Android is a consumer operating system that has many differences from linux on the server or desktop. Namely, it conceals the inner workings.
Forcing people to use Linux sounds antagonizing and like it'd hurt the reputation of Linux. The same way feminists / marketers think they should be CTO's and top developers with nothing but twitter followers - and how it could potentially hurt females who no axe to grind who actually love engineering.
The tablets are not easily programmable _from the tablet_.
The distinction has to be between educating people how to do things on the computer (which really doesn't take all that long, but can turn into "qualifications in specfic version of Word"), versus understanding the technology enough to fix your own problems and develop new things.
What other common subjects that employ a large proportion of the population do you think shouldn't be taught in schools?
When exactly do children apply geology in their daily lives, or calculate refraction? It sounds as if you're making a case for home economics, basic arithmetic, and reading to be the only subjects. Maybe marketing?
>Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives.
Train the proles up so that they can be useful to their future employers? Teaching any specific vendor's products exclusively isn't a proper role for a public institution.
> How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again?
Practically none, if the educators who choose which company's products are the winners tend strongly to one vendor's products.
> The cost argument doesn't really stand up either,
No, but it bothers me a bit that one dominant market player gets the majority of public money, and another tends to get nothing. I'm not sure how to solve this though.
>books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author.
There are a lot of fair criticisms of the textbook publishing industry.
> It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either.
True. But at my college, Microsoft licensing is a budget item as is maintenance of Windows PC's. If they were Linux PC's the replacement for those expenditures would probably cost less. A more proper solution would probably cost slightly more than standardizing exclusively on Windows.
>If Linux is going to find a place in mainstream education, it's going to have to earn it. This is of course quite possible.
Public institutions ought not to be picking winners here. It isn't appropriate.
>Decisions about which solution best serves the educational needs of children should be in the hands of educators, not technological partisans.
Well, currently it is usually in the hands of institution IT folk, most of which (in my experience) tend to be technological partisans.
Yeah, but they need to see that life is difficult and you have to struggle to become successful. What could be better than a bit of Linux to give a taste of that?
Android is a Linux-based OS. You can use an AOSP-derived distribution as a hackable Linux. Nearly every hosting service provides Linux. Linux is in your TV, STB, and car (maybe in the form of Android).
How many YC ventures' server software are running on a hosted Linux system? How many of their endpoints are running on Android? Was the toolchain Linux-based?
It's more likely that you have a smartphone rather than a PC. It's more likely you have an old, unused smartphone than that you have and old unused PC for paying with operating systems. If you are writing software, it's more likely you are targeting a Linux instance running in a VM at a hosting service or a smartphone, than a Windows PC.
If Linux is going to find a place in mainstream education, it's going to have to earn it. This is of course quite possible. Raspberry Pi is a good example of this. I can see Linux forming a valuable part of a more advanced secondary school computing curriculum too.
The article is living in the past though. Many children now, and many more in then future will equate computers with tablets. Some will run iOS, others will run Android and maybe some might even run Windows. Decisions about which solution best serves the educational needs of children should be in the hands of educators, not technological partisans.