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Electrek’s ‘reporting’ has proven so one-sided that I take all their stories with a bucket of salt. Even if the truck has been a flop I doubt their whole battery program has been. Perhaps they’re rejigging suppliers and pausing whilst they get ready to ramp up cyber cab production lines

> get ready to ramp up cyber cab production lines

The word on the street is this is only 2 weeks out.

Right after fulfilling the roadster orders.

And right before the Dyson sphere that will power Grok AI is deployed.


If we build a Dyson sphere just to power chat bots, I'm turning into an eco-terrorist.

Is there something you'd prefer the shoddy beginnings of a Dyson sphere be doing?

I understand thinking it would be a terrible idea in many ways, but in this scenario I think the only thing an "eco-terrorist" accomplishes is getting more servers to stay on earth where they damage the ecosystem more.


How does a Dyson sphere make you feel, Dave?

And what evidence do you base those assumptions on? According to the journalists at electrek despite Tesla having capacity to manufacture 250k cybertrucks per year, they're only selling 20-25k per year

and SpaceX has been a major buyer of Cybertrucks

I actually get a kick out of Eletrek’s roasting of Elon and Tesla, but if you read a few of their articles, it’s clear they don’t like him. Lots of opinions and editorializing in the articles. I have no problem with that, you just have to realize where they are coming from and base your interpretation accordingly

The reason for that is actually very funny. Electrek guy (Fred) was one of the main propagandist for Tesla's cult - he 'earned' 2 free Tesla Roadsters for his convincing enough people to buy a Tesla.

It was only once he realized that he has been duped and those will never materialize that the coverage turned negative.


I think Elon going full nazi also had a major influence on the changing judgement of Tesla.

Fred has been going at Tesla far longer than Elon has been political.

It‘s been a gradual process.

Fred selling his stock also meant he was less inclined to be only pro-Tesla.

ChatGPT sums it up pretty well I think:

https://chatgpt.com/share/69552165-238c-8008-980b-4d0ff2e1b4...


Yup. Plain and simple.

I won’t purchase or use anything Elon Musk does. Bad behavior and corroding society needs to be met with social disapproval.


Thanks for this - I've paid much less attention to Tesla over recent years, but my memory of Electrek was that it was a distinctly-pro Tesla outlet, but this was a few years back now.

Its not that they dont like him, its more of Editor was big believer until Tesla scammed him out of half a $mil worth of fake roadsters that never materialized.

If that's really the reason, that's the most idiotic reason possible. So he "earned" a couple of Roadsters by spamming his referral code, and it turns out his free cars might be a decade late, and maybe not as awesome as promised?

Booo hooooo


> booo hoooo

If your employer said they'd pay you half a million if you worked for them, and then you did and they didn't pay you, I doubt you'd be dismissing it so frivolously


Okay but that’s not remotely analogous. Leveraging an existing monetised readership for referral credits isn’t “work”.

1. What is it then?

2. If it’s not hard work, then why didn’t Tesla go out and do it themselves instead of mooching off someone else to do it?


Then what is it?

> Leveraging an existing monetised readership for referral credits isn’t “work”.

it is literally a situation in which a business pays someone for doing a job (e.g. referring customers)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referral_economy


It's called fraud, the editor was a victim of fraud. At least he clued on late I guess..

Is it fraud if he paid $0 for non-existent roadsters? Referral credits are legal fictions, much like how Tesla Roadsters are physical fictions. Trading one fiction for another isn’t fraud, it’s cosplay.

>Is it fraud if he paid $0 for non-existent roadsters?

Is it fraud if you worked for a startup that promised you options, and then refused to honor/issue those said options? After all, because those options never existed, you also "paid $0 for non-existent [options]"?


> Leveraging an existing monetised readership for referral credits isn’t “work”.

> Is it fraud if he paid $0 for non-existent roadsters?

How do you think readership gets monetised in the first place? The biggest way is ads, which includes referrals.

Do you dismiss paid ad placement the same way you dismiss referrals? If not, what makes it different?

> Referral credits are legal fictions

A promise for $100 of stuff isn't exactly the same as a promise for $100, but it's close. Debt is a "legal fiction" but that doesn't mean it's not legitimate, or that you can pretend it doesn't exist.


> Do you dismiss paid ad placement the same way you dismiss referrals? If not, what makes it different?

The contract


Referrals usually have a contract. I don't know what went wrong in this situation, but in general those systems are just as legally binding.

There was no guarantee of Roadster delivery date.

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The second part of your post is your opinion plus a hypothesis that supports your opinion.

No I said “ Even if the truck has been a flop I doubt their whole battery program has been “

The replier then went off on one about the truck actually being a flop. I already conceded it had been. The main point was that their battery program probably hasn’t been a flop


The battery is only used for the truck. No one else is building on Tesla's new battery form factor.

Which I do have to point out, doubting it's a failure isn't evidence that it isn't a failure. Which is why I asked you to back up your claims


The haters on here are ridiculous. If everyone who ever had a product that failed in the market was called a fraud on HN then probably almost everyone would be. SpaceX failed on their first three launches. All the haters here would have voted to shut it all down. Glad Elon's able to recover from business failures without going to the HN comments section to find out what he should do next.

[flagged]


Elon has done sufficiently impressive things which is why it’s sad that he has to make up a whole bunch of new things to try to impress people. Being the richest man alive is not enough he also has to be the best gamer as well. If he lies about small things that don’t matter then how could I trust him to tell the truth on important things that do matter.

Howard Hughes also did impressive things. Built amazingly advanced aircraft for the era. Started a Hollywood movie studio. Owned one of the world’s largest airlines. His company (after his death of course) provided satellite IP links for decades before Elon showed up with a cheaper option.

He died as an isolated insane hermit wearing kleenex boxes as shoes and collecting his urine in mason jars.

I think that we have already seen peak Elon, and the only thing we will see in the future is his continued descent into madness, which I expect will be aided and abetted by his business associates, just as Howard Huges’s illness was.


Because people can be more than one thing, and aren't perfect?

Perfect was not the bar that was set. Elon can be the richest person in the world and a lair at the same time. It's about what kind of person lies about being one of the best gamers in the world when clearly they're not. This is of course not the only thing he has lied about but it is possibly the pettiest. And possibly the stupidest because the very people it was supposed to impress were going to find out near instantly and now despise him for it. Consider his foray into politics, it wasn't enough to sway the elections with a large sum of money he also had to insert himself into the process. In addition to being the best gamer he was trying to be the best politician - the result was a catastrophic failure. I'm still pretty convinced Adrian Dittmann is his sock puppet account and his attempt at being the best streamer as well. Done 'anonymously' to make the case that he's not bootstrapping on his other successes but not too anonymously to avoid being totally irrelevant.

So, do you hold yourself to the same standard?


[flagged]


So the only two options you can imagine entail his detractors being irrational and emotional? You can not comprehend that anyone can have any valid complaint regarding him and his behavior at all?

Musk has accomplished some remarkable things, by having grand visions, ruthlessly executing on them, and being willing to repeatedly take on a massive amount of risk. If that had been all, I don’t think many people would be decrying him like this. It’s still easy to justify admiring those bits, if you’re so inclined

But he has also done a lot of things that make him unlikable and are harder to justify. He happily whips up massive amounts of hype, regardless of how likely his claims are to actually manifest (which is a large part of why the Tesla stock price is where it’s at). He sucks himself off at every possible turn, and takes dubious personal credit for a lot of things his companies achieve. He is vindictive and has exacted retribution on people with much less power than him (or pouts about it in an undignified fashion when the opponent is too powerful to crush, like the SEC). He has an easily bruised ego and lashes out in a very childish manner (remember the diver he called a pedo on Twitter). He enters into realms he has no expertise in and proclaims to the whole world that he has all the answers. He directly interferes in US and world politics by wielding his wealth and influence, sometimes with disastrous results (it doesn’t help that his political views usually are unsophisticated and immature, especially since he acts so certain of them). Etc, etc

Basically, he’s a dickhead that thinks he’s the best in the world at everything, and many of whose actions are detrimental to both individuals and the world at large. He doesn’t get a free pass for that just because he’s done some impressive things with his businesses


I still remember when people were laughing at the Tesla Model 3 as vapourware, as a scam, and proof that Musk was operating a ponzi scheme.

I still remember when Tesla was going to sell 20 million cars per year: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

Now, mysteriously, Tesla's new target is 20 million in total by 2035: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-...

That'll be fewer cars sold in what will then be the 32 year history of the company than Toyota sold in the last two years.

And, given that Tesla is typically full of lies and hype, maybe they won't even achieve the new target.


I can’t control the stock price or the hype cycle. I’m only interested in past and present outcomes.

The present outcome is Tesla's sales are down for the second year in a row even though the global EV market is growing.

That result comes from a combination of competition, product flops, and self-inflicted brand damage. Swasticars aren't good for sales.


I guess Telsa will take care of itself then. No point hyping up its demise.

No point defending it either.

It never did become affordable.

It’s affordable relative to the definition of affordable given at the time. The entry level Model 3 currently sells for $38,630. That's $28,600 in 2016 dollars.

Backwards in time affordability to bend over backwards for a nazi saluter.

If you have a good argument, it will withstand the bare minimum of logical analysis, such as the factoring the consequences of inflation.

On a personal note I don’t find the CEO of most companies to be particularly interesting or important, and I include Tesla in that. Obsessing over personalities is the furthest from interesting as it gets for me.


So Tesla is not a bunch of liars after all? Just misunderstood?

I'm for startups that don't defraud their customers with a proven track record of lying.

Over promising is fraud. The hyperbole doesn’t help your argument at all.

What part is hyperbole?

Too many to quote but https://elonmusk.today hosts an intensive list of his lies.


[flagged]


Please don't post shallow attacks of other contributors like this on HN: It detracts from the quality of the forum. Maybe save the behavior for twitter or gab or truth or whatever is the new one these days.

Yeah, I'm getting the same feeling. They've announced that semi will use 4680 and Cyber Cab as well, right? If that's the case, this would point to a specific supplier issue rather than something more general.

It isn't something that I've looked into in depth, but it feels like a lot of the discussion isn't hitting the mark here.


When somebody is siding with reality, especially a media source, that's a reason to listen to them more not less.

And when it's straight up facts easily verifiable from others sources, pretending that it's not based in reality is just sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "la la la la" which is something that even very few 12 year olds do.


The only fact was about the contract which is like a sentence of the article. Then it goes into a guessing game on what it could mean, with the most negative spin possible.

I honestly don’t follow this much but I doubt that production ramp up is the Cybercab’s long pole when they’ll need a significant number of market approvals for FSD to reach critical mass.

Let's stay positive folks! /s

[flagged]


Funny how similar sibling comment is. There’s definitely no anti-tesla brigading happening.

https://imgur.com/a/bPnYwja


It's gross that it has come to HN as well. EDS in full swing here, presumably partially bots. All the negative articles are from the same few "journalists". They find a way to spin crumbs of news into the end for Tesla.

It's just a popular opinion. Not everything is a conspiracy.

HN has lots of people who can think for themselves and lots who can't.


The 2nd and 3rd order effects of any wars e.g with Afghanistan might be causing some late nights in Langley

Don't think the late nights in Langley matter when the head honcho makes incoherent decisions

Oh they'll be thinking way beyond his reign!

I suggest you read the article it talks about the viability of that very point

> I suggest you read the article

I wasn't talking about what they were discussing (desalination for farming). I was talking about moving an entire city, as opposed to getting enough water to deal with just that city.

I suggest you read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#comments


Actually it says the desalinated water is too expensive even for farming, it’s only used for heavy industries, so it’s certainly not a solution for the domestic supply of 9 million people.

And don’t confuse moving the capital city with actually relocating Tehran. Tehran’s not going anywhere. What they’re proposing is building a new capital city, but it’ll be the rich and the political and religious elite who move there. The millions of poor and powerless living in Tehran will get left behind. Some will be able to migrate south, but many won’t.


What's unique about Iran that makes it not feasible? Israel makes more than half of its drinking water from desalination.

actually 90% of potable water in israel comes from desalination. in addition, a bunch of desalinated water supplied to jordan and PA.

also 90%+ of waste water is recycled and used for irrigation


Good answer. Makes sense.

I’m convinced my conjecture was wrong.

No issue.

But the number 100 billion was mentioned as the cost of moving the capital.


for farming you recycle waste water

But you’re forgetting the Jonny Ive hardware device that totally isn’t like that laughable pin badge thing from Humane

/s


I agree completely. Altman was at some point talking about a screen less device and getting people away from the screen.

Abandoning our mose useful sense, vision, is a recipe for a flop.


I'm not entirely sure it will ever see the light of day tbh

The amount of money sloshing around in these acquisitions makes you wonder what they're really for


As someone who did an MBA and was groomed to be a Consultant and then repented (now a software engineer) you have to understand that the customer of a consultancy project is an exec.

1. The exec has been charged with exploring a new product space, a potential M&A deal, more vertical integration etc etc

2. The exec needs a gauge on the "size of the prize", is this thing worth doing? roughly how will it be done? how long etc.

3. The exec probably already has a rough idea or gut feeling about one such option

4. The consultants produce something that usually supports the gut feeling, other times it will suggest alternatives and provide some facts and figures to support


Years ago, I was introduced to a “what would Elon do?” assistant. Execs want to know what their (current or hypothetical) competition would do given their decision-support data. But they also want to know what a consult-assistant cutout would know.

(This was long before his political achievements)


This entirely depends on industry and geography. I've worked with big companies where the customers of consultants were effectively middle management, several layers removed from execs.


True, they are called the "Hidden Client", any good consultant will be able to essentially do intelligence gathering on who that is and what they want, because it will be one exec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vMdZhIfPjs&list=PLtuDeBJEKi...


Tell them what they want to hear with some light research. Now this sounds like an AI disruption waiting to happen


Yeah but it's missing the credentials

Hey this report was done by McKinsey and they hire from Harvard and Stanford, and hear how well they speak and look how soft their hair is, the report must be good!


Bingo. Therein lies the difference between a “client” and a “customer”.


Lets take a step back and realise how incredible this is (I'm sure there are plenty of other `ackshually` comments)

Can it do Will Smith eating spaghetti? (I can't get access in UK)


This is my main concern too.

The next question is what is the cost and difficulty of creating the foundations necessary to handle the worst wind you can expect?


Reminds me of the early attempts at hand categorising knowledge for AI


Same. It seems the coding part of my brain and the communicating are mutually exclusive

I wonder if it’s related to the phenomena of some people having a ‘narrator’ in their head or, like me, there’s no voice and it takes effort to convert abstract thoughts to sentences


no I have the voice but I can either explain or do, not both.


Maybe this is a misconception or misrepresentation of pair-programming, at least compared to my experience. One person isn't supposed to be doing both. You're either navigating/explaining or driving/doing. Pair programming isn't about one person doing everything and another person watching and trying to keep up. It's about communicating and sharing an understanding, like a realtime/interactive PR description/review while writing. Of course there are times where one person will simply say "let me write this out and discuss after" and go at it for a short while, but it should be the exception rather than the rule in settings where it worked best for me.


This feels a bit no true scotsman.


Perhaps it is, but I'm not really going to entertain someone saying they tried it and it didn't work, when all they did was work their own screens/keyboards sitting side-by-side (or remote) each with their own ideas and not really sharing in the process, except to interrupt and annoy each other.


no I actually get it, I think like most fads, it seems to work great for really trivial things or for debugging. I have myself used pair programming in those cases.

I just can't imagine using it for serious work. navigating/explaining? I know neither the science I'm trying to code nor the code I'm trying to write - I'll write code to explore the data, I'll have a hunch, I'll wonder about something and I'll go find that one paper I came across 10 years ago to check - I don't see what code the other would be writing while I'm trying to figure that stuff out.

I'm sure it works great for yet another CRUD.


Totally agree. I wouldn't say it's well suited for research or research-heavy work. In those cases, I'll do research on my own and reconvene later or another day.


"What the ancient Romans wore may not be among the most pressing questions facing archaeologists, but it is one that attracts interest among the general public."

Such a snobby comment!


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