I bet this is a great feature (and I do have an Apple Watch), but can we please hold for a sec here? This piece reads like an Ad. Furthermore, many comments here are about "I want to see my kids grow up". Now please, calculate the odds of:
- you are in a terrible accident
- there is no one around you to call an ambulance
- you can’t call an ambulance yourself, because you are knocked out or can’t move
I think the odds for such an event are rather low. If you like smart watches, sure, go ahead and buy one. But for everybody who just wants to wear it because they are afraid: I don’t think it’s necessary for most people, unless you ride around alone in remote areas and are inexperienced or whatever.
My point is: don’t buy because of fear if your risk profile is super incredibly low.
- you can’t call an ambulance yourself, because you are knocked out or can’t move
Increasingly large odds after a certain age, and not small if you do certain sports (e.g. trekking, climbing, etc) regardless of age.
In fact, older people falling accidents is so common, a proverb in a European country says: "The elderly die either from falling or while shitting" -- the original is funnier than the translation, because the two causes rhyme).
The accident doesn't have to be terrible either. Tons of run of the mill accidents leave people unconscious...
But you don't read about such cases as such.
E.g. an elder person who fell either they eventually get up in time and call for help (so you don't read any story), or they don't, and the story is "person found dead in their apartment" etc, and might or might not mention the fall...
Is it as necessary as a spare tire in your car or a fire extinguisher in your home? No. But (since the device it does other stuff too) not bad to have regardless.
Note: For certain categories, this is so needed, that there are expensive special purpose devices that are popular for certain cases (e.g. elderly with dementia, parkison, bad backs, and so on), e.g.: https://www.medicalalertadvice.com/fall-detection/
But this is a multi-purpose device, and a cool one at that, plus it has a phone attached and can call the 911 itself, and gives this ability as just another feature to everyone!
> Tons of run of the mill accidents leave people unconscious...
Indeed. My friend's grandma slipped while getting in the bathtub. They found her barely alive 3 days later when she missed her hair appointment and the stylist called her son. Previously, she was the life of the party and went to the gym almost every day. She didn't last a few days after that fall broke her hip. The outcome may have been different if she got help right away and if nothing else, she wouldn't have suffered for a few days. She was in such good physical health that nobody expected something like this to happen.
>..the problem here seems more that nobody missed her for three days. So loneliness is the key issue here and an Apple watch will not fix that.
That's a problem, but I don't think that's the main takeaway from this story.
You could have a loving family and friends and still not be "missed for 3 days". 3 days are not big enough span of time for adults, in the grand scheme of things. E.g. if your wife is on vacation, or you/she work in another city, or have some deal going on, and you talk 1-2 times a week, it's easy for 2-3 days to slip by without anybody noticing you. Friends too might come by once a week or 1-2 times a month, and easily miss you for 3 days (that would already be more often than many people with close friends see them).
Heck, and even 1 day or even 2-3 hours would be enough for serious damage, if you weren't discovered after a fall/accident.
Dear god, man. The woman was "the life of the party" and went to the gym every day, and she DIED a few days after this fall. And your argument is the problem is that she was lonely and a consumer tech device won't fill the hole in her life?
There are many people who are very dear to me, that I talk to once or twice a week. My parents for example. I live alone, hundreds of miles away.
If I died today, the only place that could figure it in a day or so out would be my workplace. If I didn't work, then it could be a week before my parents or friends began to suspect something.
>Likely your Apple Watch won't be able to call for help if you're injured trekking or climbing, unless there's a cell tower on the mountain.
Don't know about the US, but in several mountains I've been on around the world (not in developing countries though), signal was just fine. It might not work for Everest, or the remotest part of the Rockies, but most hikings/treks are not in such places...
This is true. I am going trekking in a remote area and bought a Garmin InReach Mini. I know it pairs with my phone so it would be cool if there was some Apple Watch Siri shortcut that could make a satellite SOS message via the Garmin when a fall is detected.
Yup, for us hikers it would need to be able to use satellite communications to be of much value. Something of that nature would seriously tempt me to upgrade from PLB to inReach.
Yes! Falls by the elderly are a huge issue and there have been major product lines that focus on it. Many will probably remember the 80s/90s commercials about "I've fallen and I can't get up!"
>not small if you do certain sports (e.g. trekking, climbing, etc)
If you're serious about hiking/climbing you should never be in a position where you would need an apple watch to save you. You should always let people know where you are going, what you are planning to do, and when you plan to be back or at least back in contact otherwise they should call a rescue team. If you're solo climbing and your apple watch is what you're relying on in case of emergency you probably have far bigger issues to worry about
That being said, it does seem like it could be useful for the elderly in some scenarios
Telling my wife I'm going up the South Loop will let her point S&R in the general area. Where on the 8 1/2 miles of trail (or a bit off it if I stopped to take a leak) am I? (However, that's probably better than what the watch could do as service along there varies from marginal to nonexistent.)
On the other hand, I don't see that there is any appreciable fall risk from hiking. It's the scramblers that get hurt, not those of us who stick to trails.
That's a fair point, assuming you have service it could make it easier to find your specific location in case something happens. However, I'd be much more likely to recommend a GPS beacon specifically designed for this purpose rather than an apple watch. My dad and I used to wear beacons while skiing in the outback in case of an avalanche
I'd also consider trail running. I sometimes run after work. I don't carry alot, and on the trails at sunset I hardly see anyone. I could see myself taking a tumble and needing help. I once encountered a wolf out there and sprinted like never before to get out of the area. I could have easily fell.
Yep. I broke my ankle because I had to get back home quickly and I tripped while descending some boulders. Fortunately I was in mobile coverage and on a trail that a lot of surfers use, so I was able to call an ambulance and had a few surfers stop and help me out.
Yeah, trail runners certainly could take a tumble, also. I see plenty of them and I'm amazed at their ability to avoid injury on all the rocks on the trail.
I carry a PLB--but those can't sense a fall, they only broadcast if you specifically trigger them.
Anyway, you're thinking of an avalanche beacon. Those are to help others you are with find you quickly if you're buried in the snow, they have no GPS capability.
But don't forget about the "golden hour" and the difference between being, say, lost or slightly injured and being seriously injured and in shock or unconscious.
I had a friend biking on a remote highway in the early morning where there is very little traffic. He was clipped by a morning worker at the factory who dozed off puncturing his lung and throwing him in the ditch. If that worker hadn’t stopped to help, he would have died there. An Apple Watch would would have at least let 911 know where he was and that he was unresponsive. He has two kids and is a great professor, and his life hung on a split second decision of someone who was likely terrified of the consequences of what just happened, but luckily made the right choice (he got a ticket which my friend paid in thanks for stopping).
Edit just realized I know of several other instances where an Apple Watch would have saved someone or kept them for have a days torture with broken legs in their back yard while living alone. Surely this is morning common than you make out?
The odds become uncomfortably high for the elderly. In the U.S., falls are the leading cause of both injuries (at 7 million/yr) and death from injuries (at 27 thousand/yr) for the elderly[1]. It is a significant risk even if you aren't older. Worldwide, falls are the leading cause of accidental or unintentional injury deaths overall[2]. Given the incidence rate, I would say the odds of a serious fall injury while alone are significant enough to warrant precautions such as a smart watch with fall detection.
The odds become uncomfortably high for the elderly. In the U.S., falls are the leading cause of both injuries (at 7 million/yr) and death from injuries (at 27 thousand/yr) for the elderly[1]
There should be a law forcing them to wear bicycle helmets for their own good.
> I think the odds for such an event are rather low.
And I guess you are writing just to the young users. There are a lot of old people living alone (in the part of the world where such watches are affordable). Falling, even in their own house, then remaining immobile and unable to call for help is a common cause of huge problems (1) (2).
The specialized devices already exist too, but a lot of people don't carry them, until they already suffer such event and also have luck to survive. Such people (who would otherwise not survive) get potentially (if the system do engage and what follows can be influenced) a huge benefit in a watch that has such functionality.
"With the monthly costs nearly twice that of a traditional medical alert monitoring system, the cost alone may be the deciding factor. Is the extra costs worth it? Only you can make that decision. Keep in mind, these emergency alert systems cannot detect 100% of all falls."
2) Also see the exponential increase of chances to die with age:
> Falling, even in their own house, then remaining immobile and unable to call for help is a common cause of huge problems
That's been a solved problem for years though. As your link points out, LifeAlert bracelets (and similar technologies) have had fall detection for quite some time now. The new thing that Apple (and Garmin) have brought to the table is pairing that will a cell radio.
Given the other benefits of a LifeAlert bracelet (or pendant), I'm not sure the Apple Watch is a major improvement (especially for someone with failing eyesight).
Besides the fact that you cannot estimate the value of a person's life and the fact I don't want to think you're trolling, it can happen to anyone.
We have recently a case of a coworker (middle-age man) falling in his house while wife and kids were away and stayed there for hours until somehow reached his phone with a broken back.
Which is what I said. The watch provides more value the when younger. Middle aged to like 65 is probably the sweet spot of value. Though I guess it depends on how much you value every second of life.
Not sure why you're downvoted, because you are right. There are times when this can fail. Even the damn "stand up once an hour" seems to fail sometimes. Or Siri. Or the watch breaks in the crash.
West Michigan (US) here, Verizon has coverage everywhere, I could totally see somebody picking blueberries in a field, tripping and hitting their head.
At least around here cell reception != humans within earshot at all.
I don't think everyone's getting one just because they are afraid. However, even very low probability events with very severe consequences may warrant having some kind of automatic emergency beacon... although in retrospect I guess this is exactly what you are saying. Eh, maybe this will be useful to someone anyway.
Think of it in terms of a risk assessment[1]. If you are engaging in an activity, you should look at the probability of injury and then the consequences if that occurs.
For example, I'm going mountain biking by myself. The area I'm riding in has a loose surface, but no extreme hills or other features. So it's somewhat likely I'll fall, but the consequence of that won't be extreme. Conversely, I'm riding in a hilly area with a rough but grippy surface. Relatively, the probability of a fall may be lower, but the consequence could be much higher.
Using this type of not-exactly-quantitative reasoning, depending on what you are doing (and the consequences of something going wrong), it may be very reasonable to buy a smart watch or something similar just for this purpose.
Happens more than you'd think. My grandmother (perfectly healthy and living on her own at 92) slipped and fell in the bathroom. She broke her hip and could not get to the phone. No one knew for 18 hours, after which the initial relatively simple and repairable injuries has caused enough follow-on issues that, even with surgery, she never recovered, spent time in an intensive rehabilitation facility, and died.
It's not only about the odds, but the expected return. That's the whole point of insurance, for instance. Having an accident under these circumstances is quite improbable, but in case it happened, the return would be massive. Actually, since it might be a matter of life or death, perhaps it doesn't even make sense to think about the expected utility, because it would be infinite.
In December of 2009 my dad died. He was getting the mail, slipped on some ice, and hit his head. He laid there for about 30 minutes before a neighbor found him. He was put on life support but the damage was done.
I’m still mad, 10 years later, about the fact that he has 2 amazing grandkids who won’t get to know him, or that I can’t ask him about the state of the world.
I don’t know if the Apple Watch would have helped him, but I do know that you haven’t done a full risk assessment. He wasn’t in an isolated area, he wasn’t inexperienced. Falls get scarier and scarier the older your loved ones get.
I don't understand your post at all. I think there's a very large population of individuals >60 years of age who are frequently in circumstances where no one is around them to call and ambulance, and they cannot call one themselves due to being infirm, disabled, ill, etc.
I had a friend killed in a hit and run, she was found nearly a week later by family members searching possible ways she could have used to walk home from work, had she had something like this (and it had not been destroyed) they could have had closure much faster.
My mother's father, while still alive, rapidly deteriorated mentally and was in two accidents by himself in somewhat remote areas and also went to drive to the VA 15 minutes away and ended up several hours away lost and confused when state police came upon him.
My half-brother was driving a box truck for work when it went off road (ice) and into a very steep ditch, the truck was not visible from the road and was unconscious for some amount of time, fortunately this was still in flip phone days so his phone was in his pants pocket and within reach. Even on the phone with 911 he said he saw the emergency vehicles pass him (via their lights) while he was on the phone with 911.
2 or 3 years ago, the brother of the girl that was killed in the hit and run, hit a patch of ice on an on or off ramp and rolled his car multiple times down the hill with his pregnant girlfriend in the car, with the car landing on it's roof. Fortunately it happened during day and there were people there that witnessed it and while quite confused/disoriented they both remained conscious, had that happened at night such a device could have summoned help.
I'm one person and these are just the instances I know of where such a technology could have been useful.
A lot of people on HN live in big cities, ride bicycles or public transportation to work, are rarely if ever out of sight of multiple human beings. That's not always the case. Technology like this is great, and the more awareness it gets the more it will be adopted, the more it is adopted the more lives it can potentially save and the more data it can provide on how to refined.
What if someone is home alone and falls down the stairs? Has a heart attack? Is cleaning gutters and falls? My father's father was cleaning his windows, fell and hit his head on the driveway but his wife heard the ladder fall with him and was able to call 911, but what if that was a widower at 2pm on a weekday and he just had to lay there until someone happened to drive by, what if he was in the back yard and had a privacy fence?
The late Grant Thompson crashed his aircraft this summer (I believe they said died on impact) and was able to be located by comparable technology and by knowing where he'd be flying. Had he not died on impact, something like this could have saved his life or had he not told everyone where he was going and when he expected to return this could have given a location to go search (assuming he had signal) and led to a quick recovery of his body.
Edit: and actually, this may have saved my own life if I'd had the technology and it had triggered from a fall from bed. Some years ago I had a hypokalemic event where I was effectively paralyzed, with great effort I managed to get to the edge of the bed and proceeded to fall out of bed like a sack of bricks onto the floor, barely able to move my hands with minimal manual dexterity and poor coordination, fortunately my mother was already living with me due to her health but I still laid there on the floor, with only a bathroom between our rooms, yelling for help for probably 5 minutes. That was a pretty interesting experience, I've written about it here -> https://www.ryanmercer.com/ryansthoughts/2013/2/19/flashback...
Now I wonder if you can go "hey Google, call 911" to a Google home.
Agreed, but people buy safety/prep things (like guns) for phenomenally less likely scenarios.
I used to have an Apple Watch, and now have a Garmin that has similar features. Nice to know they're there, but I wouldn't buy the device just for it.
That said, if I had been the son in the story, yeah, i probably would have run out and bought my own the very next day! The power of a personal connection to a story.
Happened to me spring skiing last year. Not a lot of people on the mountain; I was separated from my group; I fell and broke some ribs and could not move; I was lying on/in the snow but not dressed for those conditions. My watch called 911 and messaged my kid.
Still not sure what your point is or why you feel the need to tell people that may considering it not to buy it. I would guess a lot more people are in the risk zone than your post may suggest (especially elderly) and maybe it happens that someone decides not to buy it now that actually should because of your comment.
So negative. I ride and run in the woods near me quite a bit. It's peaceful and quiet, but the opposite side of that coin is that no one would find me for quite some time if something went sideways.
In my rural state the fastest connection I’ve ever had on my phone was in about as remote as you can get fishing a creek surrounded by 30’ embankments. Bet I was the only person connected to that tower.
I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time such news surfaces shortly after Apple releases new line of devices.
Even if this situation coincidentally has happened recently, the subtle message is still here: "you can rely on Apple Watch and you should buy one - better safe than sorry"
Indeed! These native ads are getting more blatant by the day. I know times are hard for print media but this doesnt help with the perceived credibility or lack thereof.
This likely isn't a native ad (since it being one would break the law - the website posted (nor the original source[1]) state they are paid for the article - which is a legal requisite in the states.
>This likely isn't a native ad (since it being one would break the law
That hardly ever stopped news outlets from doing so. In fact, in some places everybody (every outlet) does it, even though it's against the law. Of course depends on the country and how exhaustive enforcement is (and if they can just get out of it with a slap on the wrist/small fine, in the eventually they're discovered).
That said, I don't think this is the case here. A device saving someone's life simply makes for a good story (technology, human interest, feel good result, and Apple to boot, clicks all the "people will be interested" boxes), and there are stories written for a lot less ("see this curious grumpy cat" or whatever passes for new). And such a story, if written, couldn't have but a positive spin (a person's life was saved after all).
From the moment the story actually happened, it was inevitable that outlets would report it, and with a positive message for said technology.
> Indeed! These native ads are getting more blatant by the day. I know times are hard for print media but this doesnt help with the perceived credibility or lack thereof.
I don't understand the complaints about this being an ad at all. Okay, so maybe it's an ad. Is it conveying useful information? I didn't know Apple Watch's were capable of doing this. Ads are just another way of conveying information - often that information is useless. But in this case? No, it's not useless information. It's important and valuable to many people. The alternative is that there's no ads and nobody finds out about this feature, and they lose out on the opportunity to decide whether this feature (and others) warrant a purchase. It also sparks conversation about possible alternatives (and no, the devices for seniors aren't an alternative for many people), or where alternatives fall short.
- you are in a terrible accident
- there is no one around you to call an ambulance
- you can’t call an ambulance yourself, because you are knocked out or can’t move
I think the odds for such an event are rather low. If you like smart watches, sure, go ahead and buy one. But for everybody who just wants to wear it because they are afraid: I don’t think it’s necessary for most people, unless you ride around alone in remote areas and are inexperienced or whatever.
My point is: don’t buy because of fear if your risk profile is super incredibly low.